1946-12-19, #2: Doctors' Trial (late morning)
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. HARDY: The Prosecution charges under Count No. 2, paragraph 8, that the defendants Blome and Rudolf Brandt unlawfully, willfully, and knowingly committed War Crimes; and, in paragraph 13, Count No. 3, committed crimes against Humanity, and that they were principals in, accessories, to, ordered, abetted, took a consenting part in, and were connected with plans and enterprises involving the murder and mistreatment of tens of thousands of Polish nationals who were civilians and members of the armed forces of a nation then at war with the German Reich and who were in the custody of the German Reich in exercise of a belligerent control. These people were alleged to be infected with incurable tuberculosis. On the ground of insuring the health and welfare of Germans in Poland, many tubercular Poles were ruthlessly exterminated while others were isolated in death camps with inadequate medical facilities.
We turn now to Document Book No. 9 which was previously numbered No. 7 -Extermination of T Poles, your Honor. We begin the introduction of this evidence with Document No.246, which will be offered as Prosecution's Exhibit No.196. This is a letter from Greiser who was the Reich Governor of the Reichsgau Wartheland, dated 1 May 1942, addressed to Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler, Fuehrer-Headquarters.
Reichsfuehrer:
The special treatment, (Senterbehandlung)
-- which, you Honor, means extermination; a term somewhat similar to the expression used in America, "taking a man for a ride".
--of about 100,000 Jews in the territory of my district (Gau), approved by you agreement with the Chief of the Reich-Main-Security Office, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Heydrich, can be completed within the next 2-3 months. I ask you for permission to rescue the district immediately after the measure taken against the Jews, from a menace, which is increasing week by week, and use the existing and efficient special commandos for that purpose.
There are about 230,000 people of Polish nationality in my district, who were diagnosed to suffer from TB. The number of persons infected with open tuberculosis is estimated at about 35,000. This fact has led in an increasing frightening measure to the infection of Germans, who came to the Warthegau perfectly healthy. In particular reports are received with our increasing effect of German children in danger of infection.
A considerable number of well known leading men especially of the police, have been infected lately and are not available for the war effort because of the necessary medical treatment. The ever increasing risks were also recognized and appreciated by the deputy of the Reich Leader for Public Health (Reichsgesundheitsfuehrer) Comrade Professor Dr. Blome as well as by the Leader of your X-rays battalion SS Standartenfuehrer Professor Dr. Hohlfelder.
You will recall Dr. McHaney called to your attention, during the presentation of the evidence on the sterilization experiments, the name of Professor Dr. Hohlfelder of the X-ray battalion. We see them going into this particular action now.
Though in Germany proper it is not possible to take appropriate draconic steps against this public plague. I think I could take the responsibility for my suggestion to have cases of open TB exterminated among the Polish race here in Warthegau. Of course only a Pole should be handed over to such an action, who is not only suffering open tuberculosis, but whose incurability is proved and certified by public health officer.
Considering the urgency of this project I ask for your approval in principle as soon as possible. This would enable us to take the preparations with all necessary precautions now to get the action against the Poles suffering from open tuberculosis under way, while the action against the Jews is in its closing stages.
Heil Hitler!
Greiser.
This letter indicates that upon the completion of the Jewish action Greiser wants to use the same equipment and facilities for the extermination of the Poles inflicted with tuberculosis.
We turn now to Document No.247, which is offered as Prosecution's Exhibit No.197. This is a letter from Koppe the SS and Police Leader on the Staff of the Reich Governor in Posen, dated 3 May 1942, to the Reichsfuehrer SS, Personal Staff, attention of SS-obersturmbannfuehrer Brandt.
Subject: Poles afflicted with TB.
Dear Comrade Brandt:
May I ask that you submit the following matter to the Reichsfuehrer SS:
The Gauleiter will shortly ask the Reichsfuehrer SS for permission to have those Poles who have been shown to be afflicted with open TB admitted to the detachment Lange for special treatment (Sonderbehandlung). This request is motivated by the Gauleiter's serious and understandable concern for the physical welfare of the German people here. For there are about 20-25000 poles in the Gau who, according to the doctor's opinion, are afflicted with incurable TB and who will not be fir for assignment to work again. In view of the fact that these Poles live very closely crosded together, particularly in the cities, and that, on the other hand, they come in constant contact with the German population, they constitute a tremendous source of contagion which must be checked as quickly as possible. If this is not done the infection of numerous large numbers of Germans and most serious physical damage to the health of the German population must be expected. Today already the number of cases of Germans, among them also members of the Police Force, becoming infected by Poles and coming down with TB is increasing.
Under these circumstances, T consider the solution desired by the Gauleiter as the only possible one, and ask that you inform The Reichsfuehrer SS accordingly.
With comradely greetings and Heil Hitler, Your W. Koppe.
We turn now to Document No.248, which is offered as Prosecution's Exhibit 198. This is Rudolf Brandt's answer to Koppe, dated 14 May 1942.
Dear Obergpruppenfuehrer:
Many thanks for your letter of 3 May 1942. Meanwhile I have forwarded a copy of Sauleiter Greisers suggestion to the Chief of the Security Police and asked for his opinion. The final decision in this matter will rest with the Fuehrer anyway. I presume that he will talk the matter over with you and Obergruppenfuehrer Greiser at the SS-Obergruppenfuehrer and SS-Gruppenfuehrer meeting.
Heil Hitler!
By order yours R. Br. SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer.
We turn now to Document No.245, which is offered as Prosecution's Exhibit No.199. It is a letter from the Chief of Security Police in answer to a statement made in Rudolf Brandt's letter, dated 9 June 1942, the signature is illegible, and it is addresse to the Reichsfuehrer SS and Chief of the German Police, Fuehrer Headquarters.
Re: Special Treatment of Poles, afflicted with incurable tuberculosis, within the Reichsgau Wartheland.
I have no scruples against having the Protectorate-members and stateless persons of the Polish race, who are living within the territory of the Reichsgau Wartheland, and who are afflicted with open tuberculosis, submitted to the special treatment in the sense of the proposal of Gau-Leader Greiser, insofar as their disease is incurable, according to the diagnosis of an official physician.
The individual measures, though, will first have to be discussed thoroughly with the Security Police, in order to carry out the execution with the least possible attraction of attention.
We turn now to Document No.252, another letter from Greiser. You will notice it is signed "Herbert", and addressed to "Dear Rudi", meaning the defendant Rudolf Brandt. This document is offered as Prosecution's Exhibit No.200.
"Handwritten note with words in parenthesis tentatively translated Xla/97 Inform by phone that (gassing) under way" The initials are illegible. The letter is dated Berlin, 25 June 1942.
Dear Rudi, "Some time age, a top-secret report from the Reich Main Security Office concerning special treatment of 2000 TB afflicted Poles was forwarded.
The report was addressed to your address. Since it was top-secret, SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Faelschlein signed for it. I believe that Faelschlein handed the whole matter over to you without further ado.
Since a decision of the Reichsfuehrer SS is to be obtained and since the interested department of the firm is slowly getting on my nerves through its constant inquiries, I beg you to let me know if you have the faintest idea about the whole matter.
I greet you cordially "your "Herbert.
Shorthand notes only partly legible.
Action being processed should be there already.
"Dear Rudi, "I assume that you have this..... (rest illegible) now with Obersturmfuehrer Faelschlein?)
........
Now the Document Number NO-244 is offered as prosecution Exhibit Number 201. It is a letter from the Reichsfuehrer himself, Heinrich Himmler, addressed to Greiser, dated 27 June 1942.
Dear Comrade Greiser:
I am sorry that I was not able until today to give a definite answer to your letter of 1 May 1942.
I have no objection to having protectorate people (Schutzangehoerige) and stateless persons of Polish origin who live within the territory of the Reichsgau (province) Warthegau and are infected with open tuberculosis handed over for special treatment as you suggest as long as their disease is incurable according to the diagnosis of an official physician. I would like to request, however, to discuss the individual measures in detail with the Security Police first in order to assure inconspicuous accomplishment of the task.
Heil Hitler! Yours, /s/ Heinrich Himmler
Note that copies went to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Koppe and to the Reich Main Security Office. Submitted in transcript to take notice. By order: with the signature "Br.", Meaning Rudolf Brandt, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer.
May we now have the full cooperation of Heinrich Himmler in the completion of the task in an inconspicuous manner.
We now turn to Document Number NO-249, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 202.
This is dated 21 November 1942, a letter from Greiser to Himmler, which reads as follows:
Reichsfuehrer: In your letter of 27 June 1942, Journal Number 1247/42 Top Secret, you gave me permission to give special treatment to Poles who are proved to be infected with open and therefore incurable pulmonary tuberculosis. This special treatment of the seriously sick can of course only take place after the whole population in the territory of my Gau has been examined to find out who is curable and who is incurable. Tho examinations are to start soon in accordance with the method of Prof. Dr. Hohlfelder, who will be assigned to this Gau in a few weeks with his X-ray battalion. The first utilization of this method is estimated to be possible in approximately half a year.
In this stage of the proceedings Prof. Dr. Blome, in his capacity as Deputy Chief of the Public Health Office of the NSDAP is raising some objections as to its execution.
As he states in a letter of 18 November, these objections are expressed only now although Dr. Blome and Dr. Hohlfelder and myself have spent months of preliminary work on examination, clarification and straightening out the whole procedure.
I enclose a copy of Blome's letter of 18 November for your information and ask that you particularly read pages 3, 3a and 4 and then tell me whether you consider it necessary to inform the Fuehrer of this phase of the procedure and perhaps ask him if such action is to be refused.
I personally don't think that we have to consult the Fuehrer again in this matter, all the more since he told me at the last interview concerning the Jews that I should act according to my own judgment.
Would you please lot me know your opinion, Reichsfuehrer, in order to avoid unnecessary delay in starting the procedure.
Heil Hitler! Greiser.
Attached to this we have a letter of Blome, given a document number NO250 and which will be offered as Prosecution Exhibit Number 203. I don't believe in the entire presentation of this case we will come across such a masterpiece of murderous intent as this document is. This is dated 18 November 1942, from Dr. Kurt Blome, Deputy Head of the Main Office for Public Health of the NSDAP, directed to the Reich Governor and Gauleiter Party Member Greiser in Posen.
Regards Tuberculosis action in the Warthegau.
Dear Party Member Greiser,
Today I return to our various conversations concerning the fight against tuberculosis in your Gau; and I will give you, as agreed on the 9th of this month in Munich, a detailed picture of the situation as it appears to me:
Conditions for quickly getting hold of all consumptives in your Gau exist. The total population of your Gau amounts to about four to five million people, of which about 835,000 are Germans. According to previous observations, the number of consumptives in the Warthe Gau is far greater than the average number in the old Reich. It was calculated that in 1939 there were among the Poles about 35,000 persons suffering from open tuberculosis and besides this number about 120,000 other consumptives in need of treatment.
In this connection it must be mentioned that in spite of the evacuation of part of the Poles further to the cast the number of sick persons is at least as great as in 1939. As in consequence of the war the living and food conditions have deteriorated steadily, one must expect an even higher number.
With the settlement of Germans in all parts of the Gau, an enormous danger has arisen for them. A number of cases of infection of settled children and adults occurs daily.
What goes for the Warthe Gau must to a certain degree also hold true for the other annexed territories such a s Danzig-West Prussia, the administrative districts of Ziechenau and Kattewitz. There are cases of Germans settled in the Warthe Gau who refuse to have their families follow because of the danger of infection. If such behavior is imitated and if our compatriots see that necessary measures for combatting tuberculosis among the Poles are not carried out, it is to be expected that the necessary further immigration will come to a halt. In such a way the settlement program for the East might reach an undesired state.
Therefore, something basic must be done soon. One must decide the most efficient way in which this can be done. There are three ways to be taken into consideration:
1. Special treatment (Soncerbehandlung) of the seriously ill persons.
2. Most rigorous isolation of the seriously ill persons.
3. Creation of a reservation for all TB patients.
For the planning, attention must be paid to different points of view of a practical, political and psychological nature. Considering it most soberly, the simplest way would be the following: Aided by the X-ray battalion we could reach the entire population, German and Polish, of the Gau during the first half of 1943. As to the Germans the treatment and isolation is to be prepared and carried out according to the regulations of Tuberculosis Relief. The approximately 35,000 Poles who are incurable and infections will be "specially treated." All other Polish consumptives will be subject to an appropriate cure in order to save them for work and to avoid their causing contagion.
According to your request I made arrangements with the offices in question in order to start and carry out this radical procedure within half a year. You told me that the competent office agreed with you as to this special treatment and promised support. Before we definitely start the program, I think it would be correct if you would make sure once more that the Fuehrer will really agree to such a solution.
I could imagine, that the Fuehrer, having sometime ago stopped the program in the insane asylums, might at this moment consider a "special treatment" of the incurably sick as unsuitable and irresponsible from a political point of view. As rewards the Euthanasia Program, it was a question of people of German nationality afflicted with hereditary diseases. Now it is a question of infected sick people of a subjugated nation.
There can be no doubt of the intended program's being the most simple and most radical solution. If absolute secrecy could be guaranteed, all scruples, regardless of what nature, could be overcome. But I consider simply maintaining secrecy impossible. Experience has taught that this assumption is true. Should these sick persons, having been brought as planned to the old Reich supposedly to be treated or healed actually never return, the relatives of these sick persons, in spite of the greatest secrecy, would some day notice "that something was not quite right." One must take into consideration that there are many Polish workers in the old Reich who will inquire as to the where abouts of their relatives; that there are a certain number of Germans related to or allied by marriage with Poles who could in this way learn of the transports of the sick. Very soon more definite news of this program would leak out, which would be taken up by enemy propaganda. The Euthanasia Program taught in which manner this was done and which methods were used. This new program could be better used politically as it concerns persons of a subjugated nation. The church will not remain silent either. Nor will people stop at discussing this program. Certain interested circles will spread the rumor among the people that similar methods are also to be used in the future on German consumptives. Yes, that one can count on more or less all incurably ill being done away with in the future. In connection with this, I recall the recurring recent foreign broadcasts in connection with the appointment of Prof. Brandt as Commissioner General, spreading the news that he was ordered to attend as little as possible to the healing of the seriously sick, instead all the more to the healing of the less sick. And there are more than enough people who listen to illegal broadcasts.
Furthermore, it is to be taken into consideration that the planned proceeding will provide excellent propaganda material for our enemies, not only as regards the Italian physicians and scientists, but also as regards the entire Italian people in consequence of their strong Catholic ties. It is also beyond all doubt that the enemy will mobilize all the physicians of the world. And this will be all the more easy as the general, age-old conception of medical doings and activity is to keep alive the poor and guiltless patient as long as possible and to allay his sufferings.
Therefore, I think it necessary to explain all these points of view to the Fuehrer before undertaking the program as, in my opinion, he is the only one able to view the entire complex and to come to a decision.
Should the Fuehrer decline the radical solution, preparations for another way must be made. An exclusive settlement of all Polish consumptives, both incurable and curable, would be one possibility of assuring an isolation of the infected. One could settle with them their immediate relatives, if they so desire, so that nursing and livelihood would be assured. As regards labor commitment, besides agriculture and forestry certain branches of industry could be developed in such territories. I cannot judge whether you can conceive such a possibility within your Gau.
I also could imagine the creation of a common area for the settlement of the consumptives of not only your Gau, but also of the Gaus of Danzig/West Prussia, of the administrative district of Ziechenau and of the province of Upper Silesia. In order to avoid unnecessary overtopping of the public means of communication, the removal could be accomplished by walking. This would be a solution that the world propaganda could hardly use against us, and one, on the other hand, that would not arouse any of those stupid rumors in our own country.
Another solution to be taken into consideration would be a strict isolation of all the infectious and incurable consumptives, without exception, in nursing establishments. This solution would lead to the comparatively rapid death of the sick. With the necessary addition of Polish doctors and nursing personnel, the character of a pure death camp would be somewhat mitigated.
The following Polish accommodation possibilities are at present available in your Gau:
Nursing Home Walrode.......... 400 beds
Nursing Home "Grote Wiese"..... 300 beds
smaller establishments....... 200 beds
Liebstadt barracks, district. of Leslau as of 1 Jan 1943........... 1000 beds
Total 1900 bedsShould the radical solution, for example, proposal No. 1, be out of question the necessary conditions for proposals No.2 or 3 must be created.
We must keep in mind that the conditions of the war deprive us of the possibility of arranging for a fairly adequate treatment of the curable consumptives. To do so would require procuring at least 10,000 more beds. This figure, under the condition that the program is to be carried out within half a year.
After a proper examination of all these considerations and circumstance the creation of a reservation, such as the reservations for lepers, seems to be the most practicable solution. Such a reservation should be able to be created in the shortest time by means of the necessary settlement. Within the reservation one could easily set up conditions for the strict isolation of the strongly contagious.
Even the case of the German consumptives represents an extremely difficult problem for the Gau. But this cannot be overcome, unless the problem of the Polish consumptives is solved at the same time. Heil Hitler! Yours, /s/ Dr. Blome.
This letter doesn't require much comment by me. Quite obviously Defendant Blome has suggested three methods of taking care of the Polish situation. He has never voiced in his letter any moral objection. If we can do it in a manner which will satisfy the Fuehrer and keep it quiet so that we won't have any protests from the churches and from some of the moral people in Germany, let's do it, is his opinion. Then he sets up another idea where they can allow the people to be set aside in nursing establishments and would lead to a comparatively rapid death of the sick.
That letter is followed by a letter of Heinrich Himmler to Greiser, which is Document NO-251 offered as Prosecution Exhibit 204. This letter is dated 3 December 1942, addressed to Greiser.
Dear Party Comrade Greiser: I have received your letter of 21 November 1942. I? too? believe that it would be better to take into consideration the misgivings sot forth by Party-member Dr. Blome. In my opinion it is impossible to proceed with the sick persons in the manner intended, especially since, as you have informed me, it will be possible to exploit the practical results of the tests only in six month.
I suggest you look for a suitable area to which the incurable consumptives can be sent. Beside the incurables, other patients with less severe cases of tuberculosis could quite well be put into this territory too. This action would also, of course, have to be exploited with the appropriate form of propaganda.
Before writing you this letter I again thoroughly thought over whether the original idea could not in some way be carried out. However, I am convinced now that it is better to proceed the other way. Heil Hitler? Yours, H.Himmler.
Copies were sent to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Koppe, Posen, the Reich Main Security Office, Berlin. Copy with request for reference, by order, and the signature Br.
And here we see the Reichsfuehrer has agreed with Blome, number one that the radical solution may not be the best; that they set up this reservation. They can leave the Poles with few doctors and little medical care, and nor nurses and can propagandize it in a sufficient manner that they can accomplished their objective with that method.
Now we have the key and the answer to the entire situation. Your Honors, you have heard several witnesses testify here that in various concentration camps tubercular inmates, of whom some were tubercular Poles, were exterminated and gassed. The missing link as to how they continued and whether or not they exterminated any of these incurable tubercular patients is given to us by the following affidavit of Rudolf Brandt, Document NO-441 which is Prosecution Exhibit 205.
I, Rudolf Hermann Brandt, being duly sworn, depose and state:
1. I am the same Rudolf Brandt, who already on 30 August 1946 swore an affidavit concerning certain low-pressure experiments which were also conduct with test subjects of the Dachau concentration camp, without their consent.
2. I am entitled by the same reasons, as already enumerated in paragraph 1,2 and 3 of my affidavit of 30 August 1946 to state as follows:
3.In the middle of 1942 the Reich Statthalter of the Warthegau, Herbert Greiser, suggested to Himmler to annihilate Poles infected with incurable tuberculosis.
-- You will recall that this particular document has been read into evidence --
In submitting this suggestion Greiser gave as a reason that the Germans in Poland would be exposed to this epidemic. Dr. Kurt Blome, Deputy Chief of the Central Bureau for Public Health of the NSDAP, and radiologist Dr. Hohlfelder conferred with Greiser about this matter. Dr. Blome was from time to time with Himmler and supported Greiser's suggestion.
4. The High chief of the SS and of the Police and Chief of the Warthegau Koppe, further Mueller of the Office IV of the Reich Main Security Office, RSHA, and the chief of the Reich Main Security Office Heydrich were involved in this operation. At the end of 1942 and the beginning of 1943 Greiser carried out the annihilation of the Jews in the Warthegau, and the rounding up of the tuberculous Poles was finished at the same time as the rounding up of the Jews As a result of the suggestions made by Blome and Greiser numerous Poles were exterminated.
Many thousands of tuberculous Poles were taken to isolation camps where they had to take care of themselves.
Now here we have an affidavit which indicates, as a result, numerous Poles were exterminated and many thousands were placed in isolation camps and given absolutely no care at all, and they died like flies.
At this point we have finished the introduction or the presentation of the prosecution case in the extermination of the tubercular Poles.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, in the last document which the Prosecution has just read, which, I think, is 441, Prosecution Exhibit 205, the affidavit of Defendant Rudolf Brandt, in paragraph 4 the following sentence was read. I will repeat, in paragraph 4 --
THE PRESIDENT: I will ask counsel to repeat the first part of his statement. It came in very indistinctly.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, the Prosecution has just read the last document, Number 441, Exhibit 205, an affidavit by the Defendant Rudolf Emil Herman Brandt. In paragraph 4 of this affidavit the following sentence was read, as far as I can recall. "As a result of the suggestions made by Blome and Greiser between eight and ten thousand Poles were exterminated." End of quotation.
Now I hear that in the original of this affidavit there is supposed to be something, different, not the words "between eight and ten thousand Poles", but "numerous poles". Therefore, I ask that I be allowed to see the original of this affidavit of the defendant Brandt so that it can be determined what the correct text is.
MR. HARDY: Your Honors, the defense counsel is absolutely correct. When the defendant Brandt signed this affidavit he changed "from eight to ten thousand"; as he said he couldn't specifically state, he changed it to "numerous poles." as given in the English translation. Obviously, when the German text was cut on the stencil, they didn't cut out the words "eight to ten thousand" and insert "numerous Poles"; they cut it without the correction. It has been corrected and initiated by the defendant Brandt, and the defense counsel may see it.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, I have the original of this affidavit of the defendant Rudolf Brandt, and I note that in paragraph 4 it actually reads, and I quote, "numerous Poles were exterminated". At first it stated "between eight and ten thousand Poles", and that was apparently corrected by Brandt himself to read "numerous Poles". The German document book must be corrected on this point. Whether it has already been changed in the English book I do not know, but of course it is wrong in the German document book.
THE PRESIDENT: The English document book before the Tribunal reads "numerous Poles". I assume that counsel for the prosecution will see that the German document books are corrected to conform.
HR. HARDY: I will sir.
MR. SAUTER: We have only the German document book, of course, and we cannot ascertain what the English document book says.
THE PRESIDENT: We understand, counsel, perfectly.
DR. SAUTER: Then this question is settled. Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: I understand from the prosecution that it is submitted by the prosecution that the English document book is the correct translation.
MR. HARDY: That is admitted, Your Honor, yes, sir.
MR McHANEY: If the Tribunal please, the prosecution would at this time like to turn to the presentation of proof on the sulfanilamide and bone experiments conducted, at Ravensbruck. I would like to ask if the Tribunal has before it the document book concerned with these matters. For some reason we seem to have had considerable difficulty in getting both the English and German document books delivered. They were both prepared last night. The German document books were delivered to room 286, which was the old defendants' information center, and they were then taken back and apparently forgotten and not delivered to room 394, which is now the defendants' information center.
THE PRESIDENT: For my part, I have not seen that back.
JUDGE SEBRING: Mr. McHaney, were these delivered to the Secretary General's office?
MR. McHANEY: I am not prepared to state right now, things seem to be in such a state of confusion; they were certainly supposed to have been. I received mine last night, and the arrangement was that they would be delivered the first thing this morning.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, is it your procedure to deliver it to the Secretary General's office, who, in turn, will then see that it is delivered in the appropriate places?
MR. McHANEY: Yes.
I would suggest, if it meets with the convenience of the Tribunal, that we have a short adjournment and try to get it straightened out. I am sure that the defense counsel have not received the German document book either.
As a matter of fact, I only wanted to read at this time two documents in the document book. These are the affidavits of the defendants Fischer and Oberheuser. The only reason I would like to read these before presenting certain witnesses is in order that the Court may obtain some background of the broad picture before we all certain Polish witnesses who were in Ravensbruck.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for the prosecution may follow the procedure deemed advisable.
The Court will be in recess for fifteen minutes.
MR. McHANEY: Thank you.
(A recess was taken).