1947-01-10, #3: Doctors' Trial (early afternoon)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 10 January 1947.)
THE PRESIDENT: At this time the Tribunal desires to state that at the close of the evidence for the Prosecution, which it is anticipated will be ended next week, the Tribunal will recess until a week from the following Monday. This will allow the defendants an opportunity to make final preparations to go into their evidence and will allow all parties concerned to study the evidence which has already been introduced.
I would also like to ask counsel for the defendants if they have made any agreement among themselves or if they desire to make any agreement as to the order in which they will present the respective cases for the defendants. The Tribunal notes that some of the defendants are charged only under two or three or four separate counts, while others are changed under many counts.
If defense counsel desire to discuss this matter among themselves and make any suggestions to the Tribunal, the Tribunal, of course, without being bound to fallow any suggestions, will give such suggestions careful consideration.
DR. SERVATIUS (Counsel for defendant Brandt): I thank the President for the opportunity to prepare our defense. We have not discussed the distribution among ourselves but we shall do so now and we shall prepare a suggestion to the Court. It will perhaps be that because of the brief time required, the small cases will be taken first, so that there will be more time to prepare the longer cases, but perhaps some other interest will be decisive to take the more important case first, which will help in judging the smaller cases. It is a question of time.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal understands that counsel will desire to discuss this matter among themselves and the Tribunal, of course, reserves its ruling as to the order of cases but simply would be pleased to hear suggestions from counsel.
The Prosecution may proceed.
MR. McHANEY: The Prosecution would like at this time to submit certain documents for admission into evidence, dealing with experiments carried out in connection with biological warfare.
These documents are not contained in any one of the bound document books. Accordingly, we will submit and pass them to the Tribunal as they are offered.
The first document will be NO112, which we offer as Prosecution Exhibit 322. I would suggest that the Tribunal simply mark the translations with the exhibit number and perhaps insert them at the end of the last document book, and they will then have the exhibits in the proper order.
This is a teletype sent by SS Obergruppenfuehrer Koppe from Posen, 5 June 1943, to the Reichsfuehrer SS and Chief of the German Police, Berlin. It reads:
Urgent. To be submitted immediately. Top secret. My Reichsfuehrer. The representative chief of the Reich Physicians League, Dr, Blohme, reported about 14 days ago to Gauleiter Greiser in an exclusively inter-office meeting in which I also participated, about a highly important special mission from the Reichmarshal. For that purpose Dr. Blohme is setting up a larger institute near Posen. According to his order he has to work on the same matter on which my former collaborator, SS Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Med, Strassburger, had successfully experimented since 1937, first on my instructions and later on the order of SS Obergruppenfuehrer Heydrich. Strassburger has also informed you thereof several times, my Reichsfuehrer. As Blohme indicated in that meeting that he still needed capable and skilled collaborators for that purpose, I thought of Strassburger, who no longer concerns himself with that highly important matter, as he is working as a surgeon in a hospital in Munich, May I suggest that Strassburger be put at the disposal of Dr. Blohme for said experiments with the purpose of acting as your representative in this institute of vital importance. As Strassburger has great knowledge and experience in this same field at his disposal, Dr. Blohme's work would progress faster and probably be more promising. Strassburger would be enthusiastic if he could cooperate in that matter. Dr. Blohme is going to stay in Munich until Monday night. Strassburger's address is
and then follows the address and telephone number.
The Senior SS and Police Leader with the Reich Regent in Posen in the Military Administrative District Roem 21. Signed: Koppe, SS Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the Police.
The Tribunal will recall that Blome's name has been heretofore mentioned. in connection with that of Greiser--that is to say, in connection with the extermination of tubercular Poles in Warsaw, Poland, and we now see that the defendant Blome had at time prior to 5 June 43 received a highly important message from the Reichsmarshal and as we already know from the affidavit of Blome he was concerned with research in the biological warfare. This document concerns the collaboration of a man named Strassburger in this research work, which is to be carried out in an institute headed by the defendant Blome newr Posen.
THE PRESIDENT: I notice in this document that the name of Blome is spelled with an "H".
MR. McHANEY: That's correct, your Honor; we submit, however, that this is in fact the defendant Blome, whose name in fact is Blome. In other words, we suggest that this is a. mistake on the part of the sender of the message Koppe and I think that will probably appear to be obvious in subsequent documents. We turn now to No-113, which will be Prosecution Exhibit --
THE PRESIDENT: Do you want to present this second document as an exhibit?
MR. McHANEY: Yes, sir, that's 322. The next will be No.-113 which will be prosecution Exhibit 323. This is a letter dated 10 June 1943 from the defendant Rudolf Brandt to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Koppe, Higher SS and police Leader, Posen.
Dear Obergruppenfuehrer:
The Reich Leader of the SS, Reichsfuehrer SS, has received your teletype No. 8875 of 5 June 1943. He noted it with interest. I would assume that your suggestion concerning Dr. Strassburger will be complied with. But for the time being, don't let any action be taken.
Heil Hitler /s/ Brandt
Then second:
To the Chief of the Security Police SS-Gruppenfuehrer Kaltenbrunner.
The Reichleader SS intends to talk about it to the Reichmarshal soon.
Handwritten initial "B".
Of course, the Reichsmarshal referred to in there is Goering. We turn now to Document No.-114, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 324. It is a letter from the Reich Physician SS Dr. Grawitz to Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler, dated 1 August 1944.
Subject of the letter: Counter-measures against biological warfare.
Reference: Memorandum SS-Oberfuehrer Doz. Dr. Mrugowsky
Enclosure: One Memorandum.
Top secret with Himmler's initials.
Reichsfuehrer:
The Deputy Reich Health Leader, SA Gruppenfuehrer Prof. Dr. Blohme, has asked our Chief Medical Officer of Hygience SS- Oberfuehrer Professor Dr. Mrugowsky for a compilation of the most important scientific material concerning counter-measures against biological warfare.
SS-Oberfuehrer Mrugowsky has worked out the inclosed memorandum which, in consideration of its importance, I don't want to neglect to submit to your, Reichsfuehrer, for your information.
I call your attention particularly to pp. 9-14.
Heil Hitler, Grawitz
Note in pencil attached to this letter: "Letter received for our files without this memorandum on 9 January 1945".
We now turn to Document No-1308 and if the Tribunal please, we would like to offer this document at this time in order to keep the record consecutively although the prosecution has not complied with the ruling that all documents be submitted to defense counsel 24 hours prior to the time of their submission. We, therefore, would like to offer this document in evidence now subject to a seasonable objection on the part of defense counsel.
THE PRESIDENT: The document may be so offered without prejudice to the objection of any of the defendants at a seasonable time.
MR. McHANEY: The document is submitted as Prosecution Exhibit 325. It is noted "Top Secret." "Official Note." It's dated 23 September 1943, signed by Kliewe.
Early in September 1943 Military Science inquired what protective measures had been taken against the use of bacterial weapons; a report was to be made to Chief of the Bureau for Armed Forces Matters. The Chief of Armed Forces Medical Corps informed Military Science on 15 September that the circle of "Blitzarbeiter" would have to remain very limited, and that the Chief of Armed Forces Matters would be informed directly by the Chief of Armed Forces Medical Corps. Then Stabsarzt Prof. Kliewe was directed to make a report on 21 September. As was to be expected Ministerialdirigent Prof. Schumann also appeared, supposedly as a listener. Content of the report, preparation of the different countries for bacterial war, possibilities of using bacterial weapons, (a) by airplanes, (b) by agents, saboteurs. A mass use of bacterial weapons has not taken place so far; this is also rather improbable as far as agents of human disease are concerned. But the activity of agents has increased steadily, with bacteria as well as with poisons. Numerous examples were given. Then the numerous safety precautions were mentioned which the Chief of Armed Forces Medical Corps, Army Medical Inspector and Army Chief Physician had issued.
Then Ministerialdirigent Schumann said that the Fuhrer was surely not sufficiently well informed; that he should be informed once more. We cannot play the part of indifferent spectators; we must also prepare the mass utilization of bacterial materials. Especially American would have to be attacked simultaneously with different human and animal disease agents as well as with plant parasites. The Fuhrer has to be won to the plan. For this purpose the scientists were to submit a brief but complete paper on enemy preparations and on sabotage activity of the enemy with bacterial and poisons. Furthermore, they were to indicate the methods of introduction, and the requisite number of personnel, laboratories, instruments, airplanes, submarines, etc., for the preparation and the attack. These disclosures were to be made jointly by the Chief of the Armed Forced Medical Corps, Veterinary Inspector, Chief of Armed Forces Matters, Reichsfuehrer of the SS and deputy Reichsarztefuhrer.
That, if I may say parenthetically, the Reichsarztefuhrer Deputy -the Deputy Reichsarztefuhrer, is the defendant Blome.
General Reinicke intends to speak to General Jodl early in October whether a new assault is in order, and how it is to be made. The association "blitzarbeiter" is meeting with little success; it works too slowly; in particular, chemical Warfare of Army Ordinance Office has failed. Once and for a all a responsible agency for the field of bacterial warfare must be established. Chief of the Armed Forces Medical Corps has been asked to inform the Chief of Armed Forces Matters in writing with regard to the sabotage activity with regard to the sabotage activity with bacteria and poisons discovered so far. Signed, Kliewe, 23 September 1943.
The second page of this indictment is also a top secret memoranda signed by Kliewe. It's dated Berlin, 25 September 1943:
Concerning the session of the Association Blitzerbeiter on September 1943.
In the presence of:
Col, Hirsch, Chemical Warfare, Army Ordnance Ministerialrat Stantien, Chemical Warfare, Army Ordnance Prof.
Blome, deputy Reichsarztefuhrer Stabsarzt Prof.
Kliewe, Army Medical Inspectorate Stabsveterinar Dr. Deiters, Veterinary Inspectorate Stabsveterinar Dr. N**el, Veterinary Inspectorate Regierungsrat Dr. Bayer, Military Science "First, reading the protocols of the last session.
Then further experiments in the field of human bacteriology were discussed. It is intended in October 1943 to drop from various heights on soft ground re-agent jars of a certain shape, filled with a red liquid and red sand. The delivery of the glasses is the responsibility of the Reich Ministry of Air, Air Forces High Command GLC-E7 1 V, to be filled by the Army Medical Inspectorate. The experiment is to show how large an area of dispersion bacterial material has, liquid and solid, filled in jars. Then a larger quantity of bouillon of prodigious bacteria, about 500 liters, of varying viscosity is to be rained down from an airplane.
The --
what is interpreted as
-- spray tank is to be used. The sprayed gers are to be caught on agar plates placed over a large area.
Since it is not known under what conditions inhaled aerosols or dispersed droplets of certain pathogenic germs cause disease in man, Prof. Blome suggested experiments on human beings. Experimentation in the laboratories of the Academy of Military Medicine was rejected. The questions will be discussed again when Prof. Blome visits my laboratories in the Academy.
Until 15 October 1943 the Army Medical Inspectorate is to report in writing on the field experiments to be made.
Veterinary Inspectorate lacks interest in further field experiments since the August 1943 experiments with foot and mouth disease had furnished unequivocal results.
The production of a Vaccine against rinderpest is not planned. If the enemy is to introduce rinderpest into Germany, only the veterinary precautions can be carried out.
Military Science will undertake in October 1943 a field experiment with potato beetles near Speyer. The beetles will be dropped in a rigid state, so that they will not creep into the ground at once. Immediately after their release they will be collected. Furthermore, the behavior of the beetles at different heights, at changing temperatures, and with strong winds will be tested.
The Japanese beetle will arrive from Japan in about four weeks; then the attempts at cultivation experiments will begin. A wheat parasite is to be imported from Rumania and Turkey, to be used for experiments in cultivation experiments. Experiments are also being planned with the antler moth, a butterfly, which is supposed to have destroyed 43,000 hectares of paster in a year. Next session on 24 November 1943. /s/ Kliewe.
The Tribunal will see from this file memorandum which I have just read that the Association "Blitzerbeiter" was concerned with the problems arising in the field of bacteriological warfare. We find that the Army Medical Inspectorate is prominently represented on this commission.
Of course, the defendant Handloser was the Chief of the Army Medical Inspectorate at this time. He also see that the defendant Blome, who had received a bacterial warfare commission from the Reichsmarshal Goering, has suggested that experiments be made on human beings. We turn now to Document NO-1309. It is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 326 and under the same conditions that Prosecution Exhibit 325 has been accepted into evidence, namely, that the defense counsel shall have the right to raise seasonable objection to this document.
THE PRESIDENT: This exhibit will be received under the same conditions as these previously offered.
MR. McHANEY: This again is a memorandum signed by Kliewe, dated Berlin, 23 February 1944:
Secret. Official Note.
Subject: Concerning Conversation with Professor Blome on 23 February 1944.
The Association Blitzarbeiter has had no meetings since 24 September 1943. In order to find out whether in the meantime additional experiments were made, I had an interview with Prof. Blome, who is also a member of the association. He discloses the following: The attempts at dropping potato beetles from airplanes met with favorable success. The beetles were dropped from a height of 8,000 m. and remained alive. Further experiments with plant parasites are being planned. He has until now made no experiments in the field of human medicine. These, however, are necessary, and he plans to make them. A new institute under his control is being built near Posen, in which biological weapons arc to be studied and tested. Field Marshal Keitel has given the permission to build; Reichsfuehrer -- SS and Generalarzt Prof. Brandt have assured him of vast support. By request of Field Marshal Keitel, the Armed Forces are not to have a responsible share in the experiments, since experiments will also be conducted on human beings. Prof. Blome would like me to collaborate as adviser, since I have already made some preparations and since I am able to derive from the results the precautions necessary for the Armed Forces. Prof. Blome did not know that the Chief of the Medical Corps and the Inspector of Army Medical Service have repeatedly issued precautionary measures for the units. He asked for copies of these.
Prof. Blome rightly rejects the Association Blitzarbeiter because it works too slowly and because the circle of participants is too large: for this reason secrecy cannot be guaranteed. In particular, Prof, Blome sees no obstacle in the employment of the Chemical Warfare Section of the Army Ordnance Office. Therefore, he wishes to make the suggestion to the Reichsmarshal and Generalarzt Professor Brandt, that the association be dissolved and he be permitted (not through the interposition of the Chemical Warfare Section of the Army Ordnance Office) to requisition airplanes for experimental purposes directly from the Air Force Ministry.
As a matter of fact, the Ordnance Office has so far been only an impediment in this respect. As early as 5 April 1943, the Chief of the Medical Corps informed Chemical Warfare Section of Army Ordnance Office what experiments will be necessary for the estimate of precautionary measures. So far no action has been taken with respect to the suggestions. In several documents and in the conferences with the armed Forces, Operations Staff, it was continually pointed out that the Chemical Warfare Section of Army Ordnance Office was working too slowly, whereas the enemy was working most industriously in this field. Professor Blome is of the opinion (as are nowadays other bacteriologists and biologists) that biological weapons (plant parasites activators of human and animal diseases) can become a very serious hazard to us. Therefore this field must be examined more extensively and intensively than before. Especially necessary is an examination of our vaccine, the pestilential virus (plague) vaccine in particular. Experiments must accordingly be made on human beings. Furthermore certain misconceptions concerning the effect of maximum doses of several poisons can be corrected only by experiments on human beings. As soon as Prof. Blome has conferred with the Reichsmarshal and Generalarzt Prof. Brandt, he will notify me.
In conclusion, Prof. Blome asked if the Chief of the Medical Corps or the Inspector of Army Medical Service are aware of the fact that 4,000 cases of pestilence (plague) have appeared in the European part of Turkey; he received this information from a representative of the I.G. Farben Industry. He has no further information on the subject. (Note: Oberfeldarzt Packert has heard something about it, but as far as he knows the rumor was not confirmed.) /s/ Kliewe.
Here we find that not only is the defendant Blome concerned with human experimentation with bacteriological weapons, but also the Reichs Fuehrer SS Himmler and that gentleman in the dock, who professes he was just theoretically an SS man, Karl Brandt, has assured Blome of first support. I would suppose that there were a number of reasons why Professor Karl Brandt was sought for support in this matter.
First, he was at this time the Reichs Commissioner for Health and Medical matters. He had also, I think, by this time received his commission from the Reichs Marshal concerning chemical warfare, which the Tribunal will recall was concerned among other things with lost gas experiments on human beings. It is interesting to note that in February of 1944, by request of no less a man than Field Marshal Keitel, the armed forces would not participate in these proposed experiments, since experiments were also being conducted on human beings. Now, how, in the face of that perhaps self-saving declaration on the part of Keitel, defendant in case number one before the International Military Tribunal, can any of the men in the present dock say "No, we stood on too high a place to know of these matters of experimentation on human beings".
I say again that Field Marshal Keitel was informed and well know that medical experiments had been made on human beings and at least at this somewhat late date, when the military prospects for the German Wehrmacht were not so good, Keitel showed some squeamishness at the participation of the armed forces in medical experiments. So, I take it that the defense on the part of such people as Karl Brandt, Handloser, Rostoff and Schroeder that they did not know such things were going on cannot be true.
We also see at a little later point in the same memorandum of February 23, 1944 that Blome wishes to make the suggestion to the Reichs Marshal and Generalarzt Professor Brandt that the Association, "Blitzarbeiter" be dissolved and no, Blome, be permitted to requisition airplanes for experimental purposes. Again we see the important position of the Defendant Karl Brandt.
The few sentences at the bottom of the first page of this Document are quite interesting, particularly in view of the next Document where it says; "Furthermore, certain misconceptions concerning the effect of maximum doses of several poisons can be corrected only by experiments on human beings. As soon as Prof. Blome has conferred with the Reichsmarshal and Generalarzt Prof. Brandt, he will notify me."
It does not take a very vivid imagination to see that they were all concerned with the use of poisons by enemy agents and saboteurs and Blome insists that since we have a misconception concerning the effect of these poisons, we have to experiment on human beings and that no great issue will be made if they sought out volunteers who would be willing to have themselves poisoned so they could determine the effect of maximum doses, as they put it. In connection with this problem, we also see the name of Karl Brandt mentioned in association with no less a person than Reichs Marshal Goering.
I move on to the second page of this Document, which is another memorandum this time initialed by one "RS". It is dated 22 may 1944, headed "Top Secret, Army Medical Inspectorate no.131/44. It is from the "Stabsarzt Prof. Kliewe, Military Medical Academy, Berlin, Regarding: Report of Activities:
It has been learned from the various reports of our agents that England believes Germany is preparing for bacteriological warfare on a large scale. England furthermore believe that reprisal consists in the application of bacteria and their poisons. Therefore, England desires knowledge of the type and of the scope of 'bacteriological operations' in military circles. England wants to know the types of bacteria with which we work and the vaccines we produces on a large scale. From a Conference of American and Russian scientists in Caire in September 1943 it is also to be gathered that the enemy powers are continuing to prepare for bacteriological warfare. Therefore, our defensive and protective measures have been treated in more detail. Speeches about the necessary protective and defensive measures have been made before new division surgeons and at the advisory conference at Hohenlychen. Furthermore, a nebulizer with motor-drive has been built which sterilizes and disinfects the air in the room. The apparatus can also be used simultaneously for purpose of decontamination. As soon as the various experiments have been completed, the Apparatus will be demonstrated to the association.
We see from this document that Professor Kliewe was connected with the Military Medical Academy which was under too control of the Defendant Handloser, We also see that speeches and reports were given at the advisory conferences at Hohenlychen, and, as the Tribunal will recall, we have heretofore introduced proof of the fourth meeting of the Military Medical academy which was held, as I recall, some time in May 1944 at Hohenlychen. You will remember that we submitted a rather long list, of names of various persons who attended that meeting. This document indicates that they made some reports on bacteriological warfare measures at the meeting at Hohenlychen. The next part of this exhibit reads as follows:
Association, 24 May 1944.
(1) Colonel Hirsch states that the last session of 24 November 1943 was canceled because of an air raid. He refers to directive, according to which the Army High Command wants to receive a comprehensive report 15 August and 15 October by Army Ordnance and that Chief of Medical Corps, Veterinary Inspector, and Military Science must previously submit interim reports to the Association. These interim reports have not been submitted to date; it is hereby ordered that they be submitted to the Association without delay, during the week after Whitsunside at the latest. In the future the semi-annual dates will be 10 April and 10 October, so that the final report can be turned in to the High Command on the date duo.
(2) Professor Blome suggests that Colonel Deist, Graduate Engineer, Chief of the bureau for development in the Technical Bureau of the Reich minister for armament and war Production, be admitted into the association because that office must be informed about the field of our experimental. Colonel Hirsh orders a request from Army High Command accordingly.
Department 1:
Because for the absence of the specialist the questions about the progress the research must be handled through official channels. Professor Blome will report on Ms intended protective measures and research.
Department 2:
Stabsveterinar Dr. Nagel informs us that the liquid preparations for foot and mouth disease mentioned in the last comprehensive report has already been surpassed, so that the problem of storing it is of no further interest to us. We have been successful in developing a dry preparation which can still be effective in a 1 to 10,000 dilution. Terrain experiments even on a small scale are not being planned at the moment; they are connected with great risks because of the danger from the air. Chemical warfare of Army Ordnance considers control experiments with finely powdered, diluted dry-preparation advisable. There is a plan, depending on the consent of Veterinary Inspector to conduct these experiments on the bacteria field East.
The representative of the Reich Marshal, Professor Blome, informs us that the work on the development of a vaccine for disease (rinderpost; [Ruhr-dysentery?---question mark by translator] are in progress.
Department 3;
Regierungsrat Dr. Bayer: Research on the dangers of the turnip weevil, the turnip bug, and the antler, gives no clear results as yet. The experiments on patato stalk rot and potato tuber decay have been postponed. Experiments with Septoria tritici have been negative so far; on the other hand, blight seems particularly dangerous and will be tested more intensively.
The experiments on the danger involved in introducing woods are still in an initial state.
In general the wish has been expressed to would the defense upon the food situation and the state of disease in England. The necessary steps will be taken.
Chemical Warfare of Army Ordnance reports that the bomb AC 50AB developed jointly with General Air Material CE 7, has already shown splendid results.
We turn now to Document Number No 641 which will be Prosecution's Exhibit 327. Again, I am not sure, and rather think, that the defense counsel has not received the German copy of this and consequently it is offered subject to objection taken by the Defense counsel.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received under the same objection as the last.
MR. McHANEY: Has the Tribunal received a copy of the translation? 641- this is document number NO 641 which will be Prosecution's Exhibit 327. The first page is simply a facing sheet with the name of Professor Blome on it. The second page of the document is a teletype to SS Standartenfuehrer Dr. Brandt. That is Rudolf Brandt, dated, August 18, 19 1944:
Professor Blome requests an appointment with the Reichsfuehrer -SS in order to make a report, after 23 August 1944, since various data cannot be made available before that time. Items to be reported:
(1) Use of noxious insects by the enemy.
(2) Spreading of Colorado Beetles by the enemy.
(3) Poison experiments in connection with the report of 21 July made to Reichsfuehrer-SS, Professor Blome is urged again to test the poison immediately.
Professor Blome desires my participation but I am summoned to Gauleiter Hofer for August 24.
Page 3 of this indicates that this document was sent by Sievers, but I would like to sec the original before. (The original was shown to Mr. HcHaney) Yes, I think that is Sievers, SS Standartenfuehrer. It is rather an interesting point about this document, item No. 3, poison experiments in connection with the report of 21 July made to the Reichsfuehrer. Professor Blome is urged again to test the poison immediately. It appears that certain poison experiments have been carried out by the Defendant Blome on which he was to make a report to the Reichsfuehrer, and referring back in that connection to the previous exhibit 326 where I stressed to the Tribunal that part of Kliewe's memorandum on 23 February 1944 in which he states that since:
Furthermore, certain misconceptions concerning the effect of maximum doses of several poisons can be corrected only by experiments on human beings.
And I suggest to the Tribunal that those experiments were in fact carried out after 23 February 1944, and that Prosecution's Exhibit 327 indicates that the Defendant Blome is to make a report on these poison experiments.
I would now like to offer for judicial notice by the Tribunal an excerpt from the Judgment of the International Military Tribunal, and this excerpt is taken from page 16, 891 of the official English Transcript. This excerpt reads as follows:
Soviet prisoners of war wore also made the subject of medical experiments of the most cruel and inhuman kind. In July 1941 experimental work was begun in preparation for a campaign of bacteriological warfare; Soviet prisoners of war were used in these medical experiments, which more often than not proved fatal.
If the Tribunal please, the Prosecution has not supplied a German copy of this excerpt to the Defense Counsel, and I take it that it is not necessary nor required by the rules. I would do so normally. However, this has been gotten together rather hurriedly. I take it then that no prejudice has been done by the Prosecution by not having submitted it to them.
THE PRESIDENT: The Defense Counsel would be entitled to receive a copy of the extract from the record of the International Military Tribunal, or other natters of which This Tribunal is required to take judicial notice.
MR. McHANEY: We thus see that the International Military Tribunal in its judgment, has made a finding of fact; that bacteriological warfare experiments were carried out on Soviet prisoners of war, and that some of them proved fatal. We submit that the defendant Blome was very vitally concerned and connected with the bacteriological warfare experiments, and is therefore affected by this finding.
I would like to present into evidence two additional documents on the proof of the Euthanasia Experiments. First of these is Document No. 1063. This is a very long and comprehensive report made by the Bureau of Investigation of War Crimes at Amsterdam.
DR. SEIDL: (For the defendants Fischer, Gebhardt, and Oberheuser). The Prosecution intends to submit Document No. 1063 in evidence. I object to the admission of this evidence. It is true that Article 9 of Ordinance No. 7, of the Military Government, which is competent for this Tribunal, facilitates the admissibility of certain documents. This Ordinance speaks of depositions and decisions of military and other courts of the Allied Nations. This is not such a report. I speak further of the courts of investigating commissions of the United Nations for War Crimes. It must be investigated whether Document No. 1063 observes the conditions of Article 9 of Ordinance No. 7. I assert this is not the case. This Document is nothing but a compilation of letters and records of interrogations by police officials, and similar documents. Referring to the first letter dated 26 November 1945, this is obviously a letter addressed to the Minister of Justice of the Netherlands, and at the end of this letter it says; "I am at all times ready to swear to this testimony." It is, therefore, apparent that the report was not sworn. This document I cite only as an example. It contains no other information that the report of this letter was prepared in the presence of an official of the War Crimes Commission. The document can be called a compilation of records of the most various sorts, but one cannot say that this is an official report of an Investigating Commission for War Crimes for the United Nations.
I, therefore, request that this document not be admitted in evidence.
MR. McHANEY: In order not to confuse the argument, I would like to ignore the remarks made by the defense counsel as to the contents of this report. It is immaterial as to what the form of the report may be or its contents. The question is: whether or not it is admissible in evidence or whether it is entitled to be judicially noticed by the Tribunal. Article 9 of Ordinance No. 7 states that the Tribunal shall always take judicial notice of official Governmental documents and reports of the United Nations, including the acts and documents of committees set up in the various Allied countries for the investigation of war crimes, and the records and findings of a military or other tribunal. It is, however, the acts and documents of a committee set up in one of the Allied countries; namely, that of the Netherlands, and each page of this document, the original of which is in Dutch, bears the official stamp of this committee. It is quite apparent that it is a report of an official committee set up in the Netherlands, and it represents a very painstaking and prolonged investigation. And, contrary to what the defense counsel has said, I think that this report includes verbatim extracts from statements taken from witnesses rather heightens the probative value of the document itself, rather than detracts from its admissibility. A great number of these reports made by investigating commissions are nothing more than a running account of the conclusions of Investigating commissions, but here the Tribunal is provided with these facts and statements upon which the committee bases its report. The Prosecution is not concerned as to whether this document be accepted as an exhibit. We would prefer it that way because it then gets an exhibit number, and is more easily identifiable in the record, and that the Tribunal take judicial notice of it as required by Article 9 of Ordinance No. 7. We have no intention of reading this very long report into the record We simply include it with the thought that it might be of some assistance to the Tribunal in looking over and determining the extensive scope of the medical experimentations on human beings, and this report covers seven different concentration camps.
I would like to pass up to the Tribunal the original document.
(The document was delivered to the Tribunal.)
DR. SEIDL: I should like to make the following statement in regard to the Prosecution's argument: Article 9 of Ordinance No. 7 speaks of reports of investigating commissions for the United Nations for War Crimes, according to the interpretation of that, I understand it to mean reports and net just the reproduction of police investigation records or of letters or similar document. A report means the summary and evaluation of the investigating commission set up to investigate these crimes. The heading of this document, Document No. 1063, reads as follows: "That in this case, at least, there is no report, no evaluation of the results of the investigation."
In the trial before the International Military Tribunal reports of such investigating commissions were accepted; but they were not merely a compilation of police records or of letters to the authorities. They were always the result of an independent investigation of the commission concerned, which, similar to the activity of a court, had evaluated the material presented and had investigated it to determine to what extent this material had evidential value. There is no question of such an evaluation in this report. As the heading alone shows, it is only a compilation of Individual documents of police investigation records, of letters to the Ministry of Justice, without any investigation having been made as to whether the individual documents really came from the persons concerned and without the commissions' having evaluated the value of the material.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has had no opportunity to investigate this document. Does it contain statements concerning the defendants in this proceeding?
MR. McHANEY: Yes, a number of the facts reported in here concerned experiments with which we have dealt in this case. Other statements go beyond that and concern other matters which we have not here specifically touched upon.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will recess at this time.
THE MARSHAL: Tribunal Number 1 will recess for a short time.
(A recess was taken.)