1947-01-28, #1: Doctors' Trial (early morning)

Official transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 28 January 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding

THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Court Room will please find their seats.

The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal 1.

Military Tribunal 1 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.

There will be order in the Court.

THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain that the defendants are all present in the dock.

THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honor, the defendant Oberhouser is absent due to illness.

THE PRESIDENT: Have you any information, Mr. Marshal, as to whether the absence of the defendant Oberheuser is merely temporary or whether the defendant will be absent for any period of time?

THE MARSHAL: I don't nave any information as to whether it is temporary or permanent, sir.

THE PRESIDENT: Is counsel for the defendant Oberheuser present? Has counsel for the defendant any information on that point?

DR. SEIDL (attorney for the defendant Oberheuser): Yesterday evening I talked with the defendant Oberheuser. Yesterday evening she was still in the best of health. I assume that she is only temporarily ill. I do not have any more exact information.

THE PRESIDENT: It appears to the Tribunal that the temporary absence of the defendant Oberheuser from the Court Room will in no wise jeopardize her case. Is that true of counsel?

DR. SEIDL: That is also my opinion.

THE PRESIDENT: The record will show the presence of all the defendants in court save the defendant Oberheuser who is absent on account of illness. The only information given to the Tribunal is that this absence will probably be temporary, and as the opinion of the counsel for the defendant Oberheuser and the Tribunal is that her absence at this time will not jeopardize the interests of the defendant Oberheuser, the trial will proceed.

The Marshal will endeavor to procure further information by the opening of the afternoon session as to the physical condition of the defendant Oberheuser.

Counsel for the prosecution may proceed.

MR. McHANEY: May it please the Tribunal, the prosecution would like to have the Tribunal take judicial notice of a motion picture film which was exhibited to the International Military Tribunal. The title of this film is "Nazi Concentration Camps". One part of this film, which originally ran some two hours, deals with the euthanasia institute, Hadamar, about which the Tribunal has heard considerable testimony in this case.

We have excerpted that portion of the film and we would like at this time to exhibit it to the Tribunal. We ask that the Tribunal take judicial notice rather than offering the film as an exhibit because it would entail considerable difficulty to obtain a print of this portion of the film. And I think by taking judicial notice of the film the necessity of the case will be met.

Before exhibiting the film I would like to read a certificate made by Howard J. McCracken. It reads as follows:

I, Howard J. McCracken, Captain, Army, U.S., Serial Number 01055665, do hereby certify that: 1. I am on active duty as the officer in charge of the Reproduction Division in the Office of the Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, APO 124-A. I have held this position since the inception of the Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes under Brigadier General Telford Taylor and previously held the same position in the Office of Chief of Counsel under Mr. Justice Robert H. Jackson.

2. The film which is about to be shown is a true and correct copy of extracts from the film "Nazi Concentration Camps", which was introduced in evidence before the International Military Tribunal in the case of the United States against Goering, Hess, et al, as USA Exhibit Number 79.

3. Such extracts concerning the institution at Hadamar and were taken from the aforesaid film "Nazi Concentration Camps" under my direction and supervision. These extracts have not been altered, distorted, or changed in any manner.

/s/ Howard J. McCracken

Subscribed and sworn to before me this 21 day of January 1947, Florence M. Rowand, Captain, AC, Adjutant, OCC.

The film itself is otherwise self proving since it contains at the beginning of the film two affidavits by persons who were connected with the making of the film itself.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will take judicial notice of the film as suggested by counsel for the prosecution.

There being no objection to the showing of the film, the prosecution will proceed.

(An excerpt from the film "Nazi Concentration Camps" was then shown to the court.)

MR. McHANEY: I would now like to submit for the approval of the Tribunal the certificate made by General Taylor with respect to the right of certain employees of the Office of Chief of Counsel to administer oaths for the purpose of taking interrogations and affidavits.

THE PRESIDENT: I will return the original certificate to the SecretaryGeneral. Will you take this certificate.

(The certificate was handed to the Secretary-General.)

THE PRESIDENT: Have copies of this certificate been referred to Defense Counsel?

MR. McHANEY: Yes, they have, Your Honor, in German. The certificate reads as fellows:

This certificate is made for the purpose of showing the authority of certain of the personnel of the Office Chief of Counsel for War Crimes to administer oaths and properly to attest these affidavits which were admitted provisionally by Military Tribunal I in United States against Karl Brandt, et "Pursuant to Executive Order 9547, 2 May 1945, attached hereto as Tab A Executive Order 9679, 16 January 1946, attached hereto as Tab B, Memorandum No. 15 of the Office Chief of Counsel, 20 March 1946, attached hereto as Tab C, General Order No. 301 of the Military Governor, 24 October 1946, attached hereto as Tab D, and letter, USFET, 24 October 1946, Subject:

Appointment of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, attached hereto as Tab E, I am authorized and have been since 29 March 1946 to prepare and prosecute charges of atrocities and war crimes against leaders of the European Axis Powers and their accessories.

In the discharges of the responsibilities conferred on me by the above mentioned orders and instructions, I have authorized and detailed members of my staff who are engaged with me in the preparation and prosecution of cases, including attorneys, interrogators and other investigators and agents of the Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes to conduct and investigations to administer oaths.

Among those whom I have authorize to conduct interrogations and investigations and to administer oaths, with the effective date of their authorization, are the following personnel of the Office of the Chief of Counsel for War Crimes:

Walter H. Rapp, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification Number B-416367, Director of Evidence Division of the Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 26 May 1946.

Herbert H. Meyer, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. A-441694, Interrogator, Evidence Division, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 15 July, 1946.

Fred Rodell, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. B-432569, Interrogator, Evidence Division, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 10 July 1946.

Henry Sachs, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. A-44168, Research Analyst, SS Division, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 15 July 1946.

Guy Favarger, Neutral Citizen, AGO Identification No. 20071, Research Analyst, SS Division, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 15 October 1946.

Alfred H. Booth, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. X-046254, Research Analyst, Economics Divisions, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 29 March 1946.

Ivan E. DeVries, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. A-442938, Interregator, Evidence Division, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 23 August 1946.

Ralf Gartenberg, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. D-090064, Interregator, Evidence Division, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 5 October 1946.

/s/ Telford Taylor, Brigadier General, USA, Chief of Counsel for War Crimes.

Attached to this certificate are certified copies of the orders and directions pursuant to which General Taylor is vested with authority to prepare and prosecute charges of atrocities against leaders of the European Axis, and I don't think it necessary that I read and analyze those orders.

I assume that the Court might wish to reserve its decision until it has had time to study the certificate in some detail and if Your Honors prefer, you can reserve your ruling until a later date.

I say that it may well be that Your Honors will prefer to reserve your ruling until you have had time to study the certificate, so that will be entirely satisfactory to the Prosecution.

THE PRESIDENT: Has Defense Counsel had an opportunity to examine the certificate and the attached exhibits?

MR. McHANEY: Defense Counsel were furnished with copies of the certificate in German yesterday afternoon.

THE PRESIDENT: The certificates appear sufficient. Statements or affidavits filed by persons authorized pursuant to this certificate may be admitted in evidence.

Does Counsel for the Prosecution have a list of certificates admitted provisionally?

MR. McHANEY: Your Honor, I have a list of all the affidavits which have gone into the record, whether provisionally admitted or not, and this certificate includes the names of all persons who administered oaths in connection with those affidavits which were obtained by the Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes. I do not have those segregated as to the affidavits provisionally admitted and those finally admitted, but I will be pleased to have such a list prepared and submit it to the Tribunal.

THE PRESIDENT: Could that be presented by 1:30 this afternoon, do you suppose?

MR HC HANEY: I think we could do that perhaps this morning during the intermission. It might be possible to present the list.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well. Present that list at that time.

MR. McHANEY: I come now to one further document with respect to the typhus experiments carried out in Buchenwald Concentration Camp. This is Document NO 1314, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 433.

These folders which have just been passed to the Tribunal contain copies of the documents which will be submitted this morning, and I think that they are arranged in proper order from top to bottom.

This is Document NO 1314, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 433. It is an affidavit by one Arthur Dietzsch, whom the Tribunal will recall war the assistant to Dr. Ding in Block 46 at Buchenwald, where the typhus experiments were carried out.

The witness Eugen Kogon so testified with respect to Arthur Dietzsch.

Dietzsch is now held in custody by the British and this affidavit was obtained from him. It reads as follows:

I, Arthur Dietzsch, swear, depose and state:

1. I was born on 2 October 1901 in Plauen i.V. I am a German national My present address is Detmold (Lippe) Steinstoss No. 4. I attended the following schools: 4 years public school, nine years high school. I was graduated in 1919 from the Kgl High School in Plauen i.V. On 1 April 1920 I entered the Reichswehr as a volunteer. On 1 October 1923 I was promoted to the rank of 2nd Lieutenant. My regiment was called up in 1923 in the action of the Reichswehr against the Secony government. At this time the Reichswehr was enlarged by students, temporary volunteers, and members of the Steel Helmet, the so-called Black Reichswehr. This organization was secret and maintained its own secret arsenals. Since I already sympathized with the goals of the Socialists at that time, I gave information about the Black Reichswehr and the secret arsenals to agents of the workers. During a search of the house of one of the KPI agents, my name was found among the papers. In order to escape indictment, I deserted from the Reichswehr on the same day. On 4 December 1933 I was arrested. On 26 May 1924 I was sentenced to 14 years imprisonment by the Reich Court for high treason. In 1925 my penalty was reduced to 10 years. From 1923 to 1933 I served my penalty in various prison forts.

2. In the spring of 1933 about three-quarters of a year before the end of my sentence I was transferred to the Concentration Camp Esterwegen. From 1933 to 1937 I was lodged in several other concentration camps. In the summer of 1937 I was transferred to the Concentration Camp Buchenwald, where I remained until the liberation by the American Army. Not until then was I shown the protective custody order which stated as a reason that I must stay in the concentration camp because of urgent suspicion of activities against the State.

3. In the summer of 1938 I was assigned to the infirmary as a clerk, where I handled the patients' card-index until in November or December 1941 I was thrown into the bunker for six weeks on account of alleged communistic activities in the infirmary.

In January 1942 I was assigned as an assistant to Dr. Ding, alias Schuler. I worked for Dr. Ding until the camp was disbanded. My work consisted of the following: in administration and, from 1943, also as superintending nurse.

4. In my capacity as administrator and superintending nurse for Dr. Ding's department at Buchenwald I gained insight into the records, including those which were classified strictly secret. Dr. Ding frequently discussed internal office matters with me. For the reasons stated above I am in the position to make the following statements:

5. In January 1942 typhus stations were established in blocks 44 and 49 at Buchenwald concentration camp. In January a preliminary experiment was performed on about five persons. At the beginning of February the first large experiment took place, which involved about 150 persons. These people were divided into five groups. Four groups received protective vaccinations which were administered by the nurses of the stations. One group received the Weigl, one group the Behring I, and one group the Behring 11 vaccines.

I can not recall the name of the vaccine used for the fourth group. The fifth group received no protective vaccination and served merely as a control group. At that time a medical commission came to Buchenwald, which inspected also the typhus station headed by Dr. Ding. As far as I recall, this commission consisted of three to four people. Just for curiosity's sake, I asked Dr. Ding for the names of these gentlemen. Of those names I still remember the following: Professor Gildemeister, President of the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin, and Professor Rose, Medical Advisor to the Luftwaffe in Berlin. Since at that time Dr. Ding was not sufficiently familiar with typhus infection, Prof. Gildemeister carried it out himself. The infection matter for the above described experiments came from the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin and consisted of rickettsias cultures cultivated on an egg yolk. For these first experiments Jews were used almost exclusively.

6. In May 1942 after termination of the experiments, Dr. Ding made a report in which he put down in writing the findings of the experiments. At about the same time I read these entries and in the files I found on the first page entries regarding a meeting of physicians that had taken place in Berlin. I recall the entries regarding medical meeting as follows:

In this meeting in November 1941, in which Professors Handloser, Schreiber, Gildemeister, Mrugowsky, Rose, and Dr. Ding took part, it was decided to perform vaccine experiments on human beings, since animal experiments had not produced any decisive findings. Dr. Ding is to be charged with carrying out the experiments. The Buchenwald Concentration Camp is considered the most suitable for these purposes. Dr. Hoven is appointed deputy. The above mentioned names are the only ones I still recall, but there were several other names mentioned, which, however, have escaped my memory. After having read the above mentioned entries, I asked Dr. Ding sometime later who these gentlemen were. He told me that Handloser was the Medical Inspector of the Wehrmacht, Gildemeister, the President of the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin, Mrugowsky the Chief of the SS- Hygiene Institute in Berlin, Rose Medical Advisor of the Luftwaffe. Schreiber's function has escaped my memory.

7) Late in the summer of 1942 the experimental stations 44 and 49 were disbanded and block 46 was established instead. In the beginning of 1943 block 50 was established. Both blocks carried the name Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS Department for Typhus and Virus Research Buchenwald. I remember this name from a sign put at the entrance to block 50. Dr Ding designated block 46 as the clinical department and block 50 as the research building proper.

8) Altogether about 1000 persons were used for the experiments, about 100 of whom died. These figures include all the experiments carried out at the Typhus station. To these experiments belong typhus, typhoid fever, phosphorous burns, testing of a combined inoculation for smallpox, typhus, typhoid fever, jaundice, diphtheria, and various other vaccines. At the beginning of 1945 Dr. Ding came and asked the station clerk, a Pole by the name of Gadzinski, to make a list of all the sick and dead who had gone through the station. It is from that list that I remember the above mentioned figures.

9) All persons used in the experiments had to be completely healthy and of draft age. If persons came to the station who did not fit the physical-

THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, Mr. McHaney, please, sir. Some of what you are reading seems to be missing from this document. Will you read more slowly?

MR. McHANEY: If the Tribunal please, I must apologize for this copy which you have. I am reading from the original translation which is quite readable. Apparently this was done by some German person not too familiar with the English from the number of omissions. I will read slowly, beginning with number 9.

9) All persons used in the experiments had to be completely healthy and of draft age. If persons came to the station who did not fit the physical qualifications they were first fattened so that they approximated the health level of the Wehrmacht.

10) Reports on the carrying out of all experiments as well as the details of others were sent to the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS in Berl in There is a line omitted there too.

These reports contained also the numbers of persons who died from the experiments. Dr. Ding told me once that all these experiments were carried out on commission of the Whermacht. According to his version, Dr. Ding was on good terms with Dr. Genzken, Medical Inspector of the Waffen-SS. Dr. Genzken was the superior of Dr. Mrugowsky, the head of the Hygiene Institute of the WaffenSS in Berlin, who was again the superior of Dr. Ding.

11) I remember the following visits which were made to the Typhus statio in Buchenwald: Prof. Gildemeister, Prof. Rose, Dr. Mrugowsky, Dr. Eger. The above named persons I saw myself in block 46. Dr. Eger was, according to Dr. Ding, the head of the Wehrmacht Institute of the OKH in Cracow. According to Dr. Ding, the following people visited the Concentration Camp at Buchenwald: Dr. Genzken, Dr. Brandt, personal physician of the Fuehrer. I personally have seen many other high ranking personalities in Buchenwald, and have heard of others who visited this same camp, whose names escape me.

/s/ Arthur Dietzsch 26 December 1946

JUDGE SEBRING: Mr. McHaney, are you going to be prepared to furnish the Tribunal with German copies of this, as well as the English?

MR. McHANEY: Yes, we will.

DR. SERVATIUS (Attorney for Karl Brandt): Mr. president, I request that I be permitted to bring the witness here for cross examination. I shall make the appropriate request in writing. The witness is located in the Camp of Stahrmuehlen in the British Zone of Occupation and he has given this affidavit there in Detmold. Therefore, it should be possible to have him brought here.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will consider this when the request is received.

MR. McHANEY: I might say on that point that Prosecution will resist or object to the calling of Arthur Dietzsch to Nurnberg. The only term I think in which the defendant Karl Brandt could show much interest in this affidavit is the statement that he was in Buchenwald. That statement is based not on personal observation of the affiant, as is clearly stated in the affidavit, but to the statement made to the affiant by Dr. Ding.

I submit no additional light will be shown on any matter by having hin in this court room. If Defense Counsel feels it necessary to investigate any other points further I submit interrogatories will meet the situation. We have heard the testimony at great length of Kogon and Ferdinand Roehmhild in connection with those experiments and I think it not necessary to call this affiant to Nurnberg who is in the British Zone of Occupation.

THE PRESIDENT: The application for the attendance of this witness will be submitted to Prosecution. Prosecution has stated its objections.

MR. McHANEY: I come now to the presentation of four exhibits which are excerpts taken from reports made by the Military Medical Academy. The Tribunal has heard mention of this Academy several times before and you will recall it was under the direction of the defendant Handloser. It was an institute which held meetings periodically from the last of 1941 on at which gathered the foremost military medical persons in Germany. It is not to be expected, of course, that the reports which were circulated by the Military Medical Academy would contain the details of the criminal experiments about which the Prosecution has here submitted proof. These reports were, I assume, rather widely read and do not even carry a stamp of "secret". However, the reports do indicate that papers were read to the meetings of this academy concerning some of the experiments about which proof has been here submitted. And, the Tribunal will recall with respect to the sulfanilamide experiments that the defendants Gebhardt, Fischer, and Oberheuser, particularly, participated; that the affidavit of the defendant Fischer explicitly states that the report made of the Military Medical Academy in May 1943 did explain how the experiments were carried out and upon whom they were carried out. You will also recall that the witness Kogon testified that Dr. Ding had given a report on the typhus experiments at the same meeting of the Military Medical Association in May 1943. These documents will corroborate the statements made by this witness and work by the defendant Fisher.

The first excerpt is from a report on 1st Congress of Consulting Experts. That is, of course, the Military Medical Academy, from the meeting of 18-19 May 1942.

DR. NELTE (Counsel for the defendant Handloser): Mr. President, Mr. McHaney is just about to present several documents. They are excerpts from the printed report about the meetings of the consulting physicians. The Tribunal knows that Mr. McHaney has already mentioned the meetings of the physicians as typical meetings of conspirators. He has described them in this way. In that, General Taylor also, in his opening speech, cited these meetings as evidence for the conspiracy. Because of the special importance of these meetings, which result in these charges, I, as defense counsel for the defendant Handloser, who called and presided over these meetings, I had made the request that the printed reports about these meetings from 1940 to 1944 be made available to me. The General Secretary informed me on the 8th of January, that these reports of the meetings were in the hands of the prosecution and that they would be handed to me 24 hours prior to their presentation by the prosecution. In accordance with this, I assumed that the reports of the prosecution would be complete reports -- altogether, four volumes-- and that they would be presented as one. The High Tribunal, in this important charge of the accusation which concerns all of the defendants, should see the reason, the important and the contents of these meetings correctly. That is not possible if excerpts are being presented, and the defense believes that the presentation of the records of the meetings should be presented in their entirety, and that they will counter the charges of the prosecution, that this case deals with a collaboration for the purpose to commit crimes; that is, illegal medical experiments.

Mr. McHaney, himself, has just told you that these printed reports do not even bear the stamp of "Secret", but that they were just mailed by ordinary mail. I have requested the records of the meetings, and the records of the meetings have been brought here. It is not sufficient for the defense if the prosecution only presents excerpts from these records of the meetings. I therefore request that I be given the possibility to present the entire printed reports about the meetings of the consulting physicians. I would naturally also agree if the prosecution would present all the reports.

I hope that these reports will be presented to the High Tribunal in such a way -- that is, in a good translation -- so that it will see from the entirety of these documents and will gain the impression which the defense wants to present, and therefore I object to the presentation of excerpts from the entire documents, if I am not given the possibility to present the entire documents as evidence.

THE PRESIDENT: I ask counsel for the defendant Handloser if the entire report has been submitted to him?

DR. NELTE: The records of the meetings have not been made available to me by the prosecution. Through friends, I have personally received two of these reports of meetings.

MR. McHANEY: May it please the Tribunal, the prosecution, of course, agrees with the proposition that defense counsel now has the right to put into evidence any other portion of these reports that he cares to. However, the prosecution did not feel that if was under any obligation to submit these reports to the defense counsel until the prosecution had made its own use of the documents. These reports consist of four bound volumes, running from 176 pages, up to the largest one, of 345 pages, all written in very technical and difficult German. It would be unreasonable to a very great degree for us to impose upon the Translation Department and on the Court, to have these documents translated in their entirety. As the Tribunal will see, we are interested only in very small portions of the documents. We're perfectly willing to concede that the Military Medical Academy was concerned with a great number of non-criminal medical activities. We're simply taking out these portions which we think are pertinent to this case. These volumes are on loan to the prosecution from the Aere-Medical Center in Heidelberg, and they cannot be put in evidence for the reason that they must be returned to that organization. We will, today, place these volumes in the custody of the Defendants' Information Center, on the understanding that they may not be removed from that room except for purposes of translation, or photo stating because they must be returned to the Aero-Medical Center.

JUDGE SEBRING: Mr. McHaney, does the prosecution assert to this Tribunal that it has placed in evidence only such excerpts from these reports as it, in good faith, believes is material to the issue, and as correctly reflecting the attitude of this group concerning the point in issue?

MR. McHANEY: Yes indeed, Your Honor. We have expended as much time as we can in reviewing these volumes as carefully as we can. Of course, from the viewpoint of the prosecution, we have extracted everything which we think is pertinent to the prosecution's case. As I state, there are a great number of matters dealt with in these volumes which concern other medical research — other medical activities — of the military medical officers in Germany. The meetings as I understand it, the meeting consisted of a number of groups of doctors, divided according to the activity in which they were particularly interested -- hygiene, for instance — surgery is another example — an before these groups, reports would be made by doctors who had been commissioned to carry out certain medical tasks.

These reports would then be digested and included in these reports, and, in turn, of course, medical instructions as issued by various branches of the Wehrmacht would be based, to a substantial degree, upon those reports. For instance, "How to treat people who are severely frozen." Instructions would be issued based upon research as called out, for example, by Rascher, Holzloehner and Finke in Dachau, and, as the evidence will show, Holzloehner made a report to the meeting of the Military Medical Academy, in December 1942, about the experiments in Dachau. We have extracted only those portions which we think are, pertinent to, our case.

JUDGE SEBRING: I don't know that you catch my point. Have you extracted only such portions as you think were favorable to the attitude of the prosecution or can you assert that you have all material portions bearing upon the issue at hand, whether they may appear favorable for the prosecution or for the defendants?

MR. McHANEY: If I understand your point, we have extracted all matters for example, dealing with the sulfanilamide experiments, as carried out by Gebhardt, Fischer and Oberheuser. We did not pick out part of the report herein contained on the sulfanilamide experiments at Ravensbrueck and take only part of that, and not extract at all. Now then, there may have been other reports on other sulfanilamide experiments, unrelated to these, which were reported at the same meeting, and which we would not extract. I give that as an example. I don't know that there were. I do know that there were other talks, for example, on cold problems, at the meeting in December of 1942. We extracted only that portion of the cold report as given by Holzloehner because that is the only matter on cold with which this trial is concerned. I think there were other talks by other people, on methods of treating exposure to cold.

DR. NELTE: Mr. President, I believe that I have understood Mr. McHaney correctly, if he states that he has only selected and presented these excerpts which, in his opinion or in the opinion of the prosecution, would serve in sustaining the accusations, and of those which can also serve for the defense; that is, in this case, for the realization of the proper importance of all the actions which were committed. A brief review of the excerpts which ** to be presented will show that not even the excerpts show completely the discussions and speeches, but that, from these reports, only individual sections were selected, of which it is believe that they would serve in sustaining the accusations.

But just these excerpts from reports prevent that the entire impression of these meetings can be translated to the Tribunal. If, in this case, there are only individual actions concerned, then perhaps I could understand the point of view of the prosecution. However, just in the case of these reports of the meetings, the supposed conspiracy and the alleged conspiracy is involved, and allegedly, typical meetings of conspirators, who are planning medical crimes, but this accusation which is the first you will not be able to get the proper impression if you do not only hear individual excerpts or individual reports, but if you are presented with the meetings in their entirety. And it is for this reason that I request that I be permitted to present all the records of the meetings, so I may assume that the prosecution has not accidentally referred to the parts of the excerpts which can be used in sustaining the accusation, but this can only happen if all the reports of the meetings have been read and translated.

Therefore, there must be translations of the records of these meetings. And, therefore, I have pointed to the Aero-Medical Center in Heidelberg, where these reports of the meetings were being kept. I am certain that translations of these documents can be found.

BY THE PRESIDENT:

These four volumes of the printed report will be made available to the counsel for the defendants; they may read them and study them. If Counsel for the Defense are of the opinion that the translations offered are incorrect or incomplete, or in any matter imperfect and does not express the true sentiment the meaning, counsel for the defendants may present that matter to the Tribunal. Upon the opening of the defendants' trial, counsel for the defense may offer in evidence any further translations of these document which they desire to offer and which are pertinent to the inquiry before the Tribunal. The Tribunal would not direct this burden of translating all these four volumes of reports; unless some reason appears certain portions of them should not be translated. If translations in English Language of these volumes exists, and can be made available, that might be done, out whether such translations exist or not, of course, the Tribunal is not advised. Part of the defendants' own case, in representing their defense, is in the presentation of evidence and portions of reports which they deem to be material to it, and they should throw some light on the situation to the defense counsel. Does that answer Counsel's question?

DR. NELTE: May I ask the President one question? If it should be possible for me to find these four volumes of the report and have them made available by friends of the defendants, would I then get the approval of the Tribunal, if I should offer it as evidence in its entirety?

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will not be inclined to admit in evidence four printed volumes in the German language, but counsel, the volumes being available to him, can of course read and study them to any extent which he desires, and then may offer in evidence any portions of the documents, translated in the English language, which he deems pertinent to his case. Of course it is manifest to everybody that these volumes contain much material which would be entirely immaterial to the matter now pending before this Tribunal. It seems to the Tribunal, if the Counsel has these volumes available to him, which we are sure they will be, upon reading those volumes he can make portions of it, or improper translations, or incomplete, or that do not c***** or convey the true sense of the meaning, remedy is available to him of offering supplemental or more complete translations on any of the extracts from these documents which he deems pertinent to his case, but it would not permit entry of four printed volumes in the German language, a large proportion of which would manifestly be immaterial to this inquiry.

BY MR. McHANEY:

The first excerpt is Document NO-921, which will be Prosecution's Exhibit No.434, and it is from the Military Medical Academy meeting hold on 18 and 19 May, 1942. We have here only a very short excerpt concerning a report made by the defendant -

JUDGE SEBRING: Where do you find that date?

MR. McHANEY: It is not on the copy; it was left off.

THE PRESIDENT: It is important for Defense Counsel to know the date and page of the document.

MR. McHANEY: It is on page 76 of the original; I will pass it up to the Tribunal; the second name from the top. The date is on the front of the booklet.

JUDGE SEBRING: Is the date 19 May, 1942, or 18, 19, or does that purport to cover everything in that book?

MR. McHANEY: Yes, that is correct, your Honor. That is a report on the meeting held on those two dates and it is a summary of talks and papers submitted to that meeting. This excerpt is not offered on the ground that the matters here reported are purely criminal. I will read it first:

Mrugowsky indicates that, according to his investigations, Shiga seems only to appear in Southern Russia, but this may change again. Protective vaccinations against dysentery, as performed on 12,400 individuals in concentration camps, proved the complete inefficacy of the absorbat-vaccine from the Behring works, but dysbacta administered to 11,000 individuals and the vaccing of the Saechsische Serum Worke administered to 8,000 as well as dysperos administered to 4,000 individuals had a very good effect. Success was only judged though, on the basis of whether or not an epidemic in a camp stopped or continued.

Asid-vaccine was not tested. Phagen (Behring works) was administered to 12,000 individuals three times 10 cubic centimeters a fortnight, with very good results.

We simply submit this to snow that it was reported at these meetings that various vaccines and experiments were being carried out on concentration camp inmates, and here they mention a very large number. We do not offer this to show that the particular matter with which they are dealing was a criminal experiment; I don't know. It appears they were simply testing vaccine. We offer it simply to show that the report was made that they were testing vaccine as a matter of course on concentration camp inmates on a very large scale.

The next document, NO-922, which is a report on the second meeting of the consulting physicians is from:

BY THE PRESIDENT:

The Tribunal will recess for a few moments.