1947-06-05, #3: Doctors' Trial (afternoon)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 5 June 1947.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
May it please Your Honors, the defendant Rudolf Brandt has resumed his place in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note for the record that Rudolf Brandt has resumed his place in the dock.
Do any of the defense counsel have any questions of this witness?
PAUL FRIEDRICH DORN — Resumed
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
DR. STEINBAUER: Steinbauer for defendant Beiglboeck.
BY DR. STEINBAUER:
Q: Witness, I was interested in what you said at the conclusion, namely, that you were subjected to severe pressure not to appear here as a witness. I ask you, do you believe that if a former hospital capo in a concentration camp today is the regional chief, let us say, of the Communist Party in a country not under American protection, would he have enough power that former concentration camp inmates would be afraid to oppose him?
A: To this question I can only say that efforts were made to make difficulties for me before my departure for Nuernberg.
Q: Please speak a little louder. I don't hear you.
A: I repeat, I can only say that difficulties were made for me before my departure for Nuernberg.
Q: Then you believe that if less intelligent former concentration camp inmates are subjected to such pressure they are likely not to tell the truth?
A: I consider that quite possible.
Q: How long were you in a concentration camp?
A: From 1940 to 1944.
Q: Then you had rather exhaustive experience with concentration camps?
A: Yes, that can be said.
Q: Were you detained in one concentration camp or in different camps?
A: I was first in Dachau, and from December 1940 to 20 September 1943 in Buchenwald, and from 20 September 1943 until 16 July 1944 I was in Auschwitz.
Q: Then the inmates of the concentration camp were they persecuted by the SS and were there political struggles for power within the concentration camp?
A: I would say the inmates had more to fear of those latter struggles for power than of the SS, because the motto in the camp was "He who doesn't toe the line or it is believed he doesn't toe the line," death sentence is already prepared for him.
Q: Then there was a fight between the blues and the reds in the camp?
A: It would be better to say between the greens and the reds.
Q: Within these individual groups, let us say within the red group, were there also not struggles for power?
A: I can answer that question only in regards to Camp Buchenwald, and I can say that as long as the center of the illegal camp management was in the camp hospital it was possibly determined through Dr. Hoven's protection, when the political prisoners, particularly if they were former communists, were practically united, and Buchenwald was the only camp group this organization was extended to all members of the camp no matter what their nationality was.
Q: Witness, because you just mentioned Buchenwald, were there gypsies in that camp?
A: Quite a few, indeed.
Q: What colors did the gypsies carry?
A: You refer to what triangle they wore?
Q: Yes.
A: They wore the black one designating them as asocial.
Q: I must tell you that in the book "SS State" by Kogon it is started that the gypsies wore the brown triangle.
A: Insofar as I know, the brown sign was done away with in Buchenwald in 1940, and all gypsies arrested for racial reasons were asocial.
In other words, from 1940 on there were no gypsies in the camp who were not designated in the filing system as asocial, as unwilling to work.
Q: Now we have these various designations, the reds, blues, and browns. Did any of these groups have more opportunity to escape from the camp more quickly than other groups?
A: The green prisoners, the professional criminals, had no chance whatever to be released from the camp. The political prisoners — of them I know only three or four cases who were released through channels. To be sure, there were some releases which I said this morning which Dr. Hoven was behind. The black ones had quite a good chance of being released.
Q: And according to what you have said the gypsies belonged to this class.
A: I have already said so.
Q: Let me ask you again, did the gypsies belong among those who had a better chance of early release?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know whether there was a tuberculosis station in Dachau?
A: I know about this Tuberculosis Station from my own experience from the time I myself was at Dachau, moreover, I can state that from my Auschwitz time, we sent tubercular persons if they were native Germans to Dachau for treatment.
Q: Now, since you said you know about this station yourself; how was it kept?
A: I must say I saw this station only from the outside, but I know from prisoner nurses with whom I associated in Auschwitz that the tuberculosis station in Dachau was very well equipped.
Q: Now, if a prisoner had the misfortune of falling sick with tuberculosis in Dachau, do you believe that he was taken into and cared for in the tuberculosis station, or do you believe he was killed because he had tuberculosis?
A: The important thing in the camp was always whether the prisoner had some connections either with the camp doctor or with the illegal camp administration and if so, he was immediately taken into the Tuberculosis station.
Q: Did you ever hear that prisoners were used in experiments, medical experiments?
A: So far as I know there were high altitude experiments in Dachau for the Luftwaffe, then I think there were experiments in making sea-water potable and experiments of that sort, however, I am not exactly informed on this.
Q: That is not important, but can you tell me perhaps were these people forced to participate in these experiments or was there an opportunity for them to apply?
A: Please imagine the position in which a prisoner finds himself, who for many years has not been able to eat until his appetite is satisfied and imagine how he think if he applies for such and such an experiment, he will receive double or triple rations. You can readily see that hundreds and even more prisoners would make themselves available simply for the purely human urge to have a full meal.
Q: Now, witness, you said that for an inmate of the camp it was difficult to know very much about what went on in the hospital; what opportunities did a person entirely outside of the camp, let us say myself living in Vienna, have to observe what went on in Dachau or Buchenwald?
A: I can only give you the one answer; I myself did not know what went on in there until I myself was inside.
Q: Thank you, I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there any further questions to be propounded to the witness by defense counsel? If not, the prosecution may cross examine.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. HARDY:
Q: Mr. Dorn, how long did you work in the quarries at Buchenwald?
A: From December of 1940 until I first fell sick around the middle of January, then with short interruptions I was in the hospital and then until March of 1941 I worked in the quarries.
Q: How many people did you see killed there?
A: How many in the quarries?
Q: Yes.
A: That is a very sad chapter. The prisoner Kapo Herzog, a man of ill repute, treated the prisoners exactly in accord with what his mood happened to be and it is true that people were mistreated for so long they finally died.
Q: Didn't they actually take inmates to the quarries to execute them?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, in the early morning, when the prisoners were leaving the camp, the Camp Commander Schobert frequently ordered that when the commando came back in the evening there were to be no more Jews in it. I believe that you understand what that means.
Q: How long was Schobert Camp Commander?
A: As far as I know, until the camp was liberated.
Q: When Koch Camp Commander?
A: I must correct; Schobert was not the Camp Commander but the administrator of the Preventive Custody Camp.
Q: What kind of a man was Camp Commandant Koch?
A: I must say that I saw Commandant Koch only very infrequently, but so far as I recall, he was a man with no conscience and a criminal, that is really the only description that one can find for that man.
Q: When did you first enter Block 46?
A: Approximately three or four days after the first experimental series was begun.
Q: How often did you frequent Block 46?
A: You mean the entire period of time during which I was in Buchenwald as a nurse; if you do, I must say that I cannot give you the exact number of times, but that it was very often.
Q: Did you go there two or three times a week, or two or three times a month; just how often?
A: I believe I can state that I was there twice a week.
Q: Twice a week; however, you had no duties to preform at Block 46?
A: No, in Block 46 I had no work to do, only occasionally I had to take medicine and drugs there.
Q: Then your only reason for frequenting Block 46 was to deliver drugs and medicine; is that correct?
A: I frequently had to take food there to, butter which was given as an additional ration and which I received in the kitchen to be taken to Block 46.
Q: Well, then, whenever you paid a visit to Block 46 how much time did you spend there; ten minutes, two hours a whole day?
A: Sometimes I was there for an hour and conversed with the nurses there.
Q: Did you ever see any experiments being conducted?
A: I saw the patients daily, I also often asked them how things were going with them or what they were doing, but I could not see the experiments themselves since Dr. Ding never took me inside the Block.
Q: Did you ever see Dr. Ding administer any injections to the experimental subjects or perform any of the experiments thereon at any time?
A: No.
Q: Then, you are not at liberty to tell the Tribunal who experimented in block 46?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, I am in a position to do so because I was on very friendly terms with the nurse Jellinek and he frequently told me who was doing what in Block 46.
Q: Did any of the nurses ever tell you that Dr. Hoven was performing experiments in Block 46?
A: No.
Q: Would it have been possible for Dr. Hoven to perform experiments in Block 46 without your knowledge?
A: I hardly believe so, Mr. Prosecutor, because such things would immediately have become generally known in the camp in our circles.
Q: Suppose Fritz Kirchheimer stated that he personally saw Dr. Hoven experiment on subjects, in Block No. 46?
DR. GAWLIK: I object to that question, Kirchheimer never said such a thing. I wish the Prosecutor to show the transcript to the witness so he may see what Fritz Kirchheimer actually did say. I know that Kirchheimer stated he never saw Dr. Hoven giving an injection.
MR. HARDY: Pardon me, Your Honor, I did not say injection. I said experimented on. Fritz Kirchheimer testified here that Dr. Hoven tied the cage of lice on inmates legs in Block 46, if I recollect correctly.
Did Kirchheimer ever tell you about that witness?
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President, I believe that the ruling of the court is that the transcript should be shown to the witness so he himself can read what the witness Kirchheimer said.
MR. HARDY: Your Honor, I don't think that is necessary. I will ask him whether or not Kirchheimer ever told him that he saw Dr. Hoven ever experiment on inmates in the camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Then you will withdraw the previous question?
MR. HARDY: That was my previous question, Your Honor, I asked if he ever talked to Kirchheimer and if Kirchheimer ever told him that Dr. Hoven ever experimented on inmates, that was the import of my question.
THE PRESIDENT: The translation must have come through wrong then, Mr. Hardy, I did not understand you. The prosecutor will propound his question again.
MR. HARDY: Did Fritz Kirchheimer ever tell you that he
MR. HARDY: Did Fritz Kirchheimer ever tell you that he saw Dr. Hoven performing experiments on human beings in Block No. 46?
THE WITNESS: No, moreover Fritz Kirchheimer was, so far as I know, employed only in the bath and had had no opportunity to observe the functioning physician during his experiments.
MR. HARDY: If Fritz Kirchheimer stated that he had the opportunity to observe that; would you tend to disbelieve him?
DR. GAWLIK: I again ask that the prosecutor put the transcript to the witness. I deny that that statement was ever made by Kirchheimer, in my recollection. The witness Kirchheimer did not say that and, in order to be sure on this matter, I ask again that the transcript he put to the witness so that he can see what really was said.
THE PRESIDENT: I think in order to make the question proper the transcript should be procured.
MR. HARDY: Strike the question, Your Honor. I will not bother to put it to the witness yet. I will save that for the brief.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q: Did you know one of your colleagues, an inmate named Leeuwarden, spelled L-e-e-u-w-a-r-d-e-n?
A: No.
Q: Did you know another one of your colleagues, a witness named Schalker, S-c-h-a-l-k-e-r?
A: No.
Q: Now, you say when this first shipment of lice arrived. Can you tell us where it came from?
A: So far as I know, from Cracow.
Q: How did you happen to know that it arrived from Cracow?
A: There was general talk about it in that camp and it was said that the Wehrmacht officer who brought the second shipment of lice had come from Cracow from the Wehrmacht Institute there.
Q: Did you see the lice?
A: I personally did not.
Q: Did you see the lice destroyed?
A: No.
Q: Do you know whether or not it was destroyed before or after use in the experimental block 46?
A: The first shipment was certainly burned before any experiments were done with it.
Q: Who told you that?
A: In the whole hospital that was well known to all the nurses.
Q: Who told you that?
A: My superior in the illegal organization.
Q: Who?
A: Hollmuth Diemann.
Q: Is he the man who was one of the doctors working in the hospital barracks?
A: No.
Q: What was his position in the hospital barracks?
A: Hellmuth Diemann was a prisoner nurse.
Q: When did the second shipment of lice arrive?
A: That was at the end of 1942.
Q: Did you see it.
A: No.
Q: Did you see it destroyed?
A: No.
Q: Do you know whether or not it was destroyed before or after use in the experimental block 46?
A: It was burned after the lice had been placed on the prisoners for a few minutes. When the person who brought this shipment, the Wehrmacht officer, had left block 46, the cages of lice were taken from block 46 and burned.
Q: Who told you that?
A: In the illegal organization that was explicitly made known, because we prisoners, so far as we knew what was going on in block 46, were just as afraid of an attack of disease as anyone else who had anything to do with block 46. For this reason these measures were taken for our own reassurance and so far as possible to reassure all the prisoners in the camp, and for this reason this information was immediately made known.
Q: Who was present in the illegal camp management when these lice were tied on to the legs of inmates?
A: Very probably, only the prisoner capo of block 46, Arthur Dietzsch.
Q: Was he a member of the illegal camp management?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, in this instance, you are asking too much of me here; if you ask me about the organization of the illegal camp management, I cannot answer this question on the basis of a list. I can't say such and such or such and such a prisoner was a member. I can only tell you who my superior was, who gave me my instructions, and to whom I reported. It was absolutely necessary to build the illegal organization according to this pattern because if a member of the organization was tortured by the SS in the Buchenwald bunker then, at most, he could only name one man who was his superior and only one man was his inferior. Therefore, he could betray only two people; and, if the camp or organization had been differently set up there would have been a great misfortune in the camp.
Q: How many criminals were members of the illegal camp management?
A: I believe that is one of the hardest questions that you could have asked me. In view of the fact, that I am testifying under oath, I cannot answer that question definitely.
Q: Was Arthur Dietzsch, hospital capo of block 46, a criminal prisoner?
A: No, Arthur Dietzsch was a political prisoner of many years standing.
Q: Are you sure?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know why he was incarcerated in a concentration camp?
A: Dietzsch was a former Reichswehr [Reich Defense] officer and had been punished because within the Reichswehr he had carried Communistic propaganda.
Q: Had Arthur Dietzsch been in jail for some 20 years?
A: I believe he had served 15 years in a penitentiary and from 1934 on he had been in various concentration camps.
Q: He was classified as a political prisoner?
A: Political prisoner, yes.
Q: And he reported to the illegal camp management that the lice in cages were tied to the thighs of experimental subjects?
A: Yes.
Q: Who tied them on the thighs of the experimental subjects?
A: So far as I know, Arthur Dietzsch himself.
Q: Who was present?
A: Dr. Ding, and a doctor from Berlin.
Q: Was Dr. Hoven there?
A: That I cannot answer.
Q: Was Fritz Kirchheimer there?
A: He probably was because Kirchheimer was one of the strangest men in the camp and he was used for such services.
Q: You state that Dr. Hoven, in order to stop the use of these lice, called the SS officer on the telephone and told him if he didn't return in the truck that he would have to walk later in the evening. Is that in this connection, that you told us that?
A: I didn't quite understand the question.
Q: On direct examination you stated that the second shipment of lice was to be used in an experiment and was, in fact, used and that Dr. Hoven, knowing that the lice was being used, attempted to interrupt the experiments by calling the SS officer from Berlin by telephone and telling him that it would not be possible for him to return to Weimar later in the evening and that the only transportation available was a truck that was leaving immediately and then the SS officer took the available transportation which enable Hoven to destroy the lice. Is that what you tried to convey to us?
A: Yes, but apparently there was an error in the translation. It was not an SS officer but a member of the German Wehrmacht.
Q: I see. Where did Hoven telephone from?
A: I have already mentioned this morning that the prison hospital had direct telephonic connections with Block 46 so that there was an opportunity that anybody who had to be called up at any time could be called up.
Q: Where did Hoven call this Wehrmacht officer from? Was Hoven in the hospital barracks and the Wehrmacht officer in Block 46?
A: At that time Hoven was in the hospital and was brought by a prisoner immediately to block 46 and apparently was informed by this prisoner in the hospital what was going on at that time in block 46.
Q: Then he telephoned the Wehrmacht officer and told him a truck was ready to leave. Is that right?
A: No. Dr. Hoven then returned with the prisoner from the hospital the one hundred meters to block 46, and called the motor pool.
Q: Where did the use of the telephone come into play?
A: In the hospital.
Q: Did you hear the telephone call?
A: No, but I know all about it because this was a matter that was of vast importance to us prisoners.
Q: Now, Dr. Hoven telephoned the Wehrmacht officer from the hospital, is that right, and told him the truck was leaving?
A: No, Dr. Hoven telephoned in the hospital to the motor pool and had the truck arranged for and thereupon he returned in person from the hospital with this prisoner to Block 46 and probably told this officer personally that the truck was ready for him, that he should seize this opportunity because otherwise he would have to make the long trip from Buchenwald to Weimar that evening on foot.
Q: Then, Hoven proceeded to destroy the lice after the Wehrmacht officer left?
A: Yes.
Q: What was Dr. Ding doing all of this time?
A: Dr. Ding accompanied the Wehrmacht officer to the gate.
Q: Well, was Dr. Hoven the superior of Dr. Ding? Could he destroy the equipment Dr. Ding was using in his experiments without the permission of Dr. Ding.
A: No, it was quite the contrary, but Dr. Hoven was the man in the camp who stood on the best terms with the prisoners and who would normally take charge of such a matter as this. I don't think Ding would have done anything in this case.
Q: Ding didn't have anything to say about it?
A: I am sorry I didn't quite understand the question.
Q: Ding didn't have anything to say about the destruction of the lice?
A: I don't believe Ding knew anything about this occurrence at all.
Q: How much authority could Dr. Hoven exercise over block 46?
A: I know for certain that Dr. Hoven only once was put in as Dr. Ding's deputy for a short period of time. Dr. Ding himself had typhus at that time and, I believe, he was on leave for convalescence.
Q: I am not referring to when Dr. Ding was on leave. When Dr. Ding was present in Block 46, how much authority did Hoven have ever it?
A: None at all.
Q: He had authority to go in and destroy the lice Dr. Ding was using?
A: Mr. Prosecutor at the time when Dr. Hoven destroyed the lice that was something he did on his own initiative, and if Dr. Ding had got wind of that he would immediately have had Dr. Hoven punished.
Q: Well now then when Dr. Ding came back and couldn't find his lice, didn't he know about it?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, the situation was often such, that Dr. Ding just came to the camp for half an hour, ordered something or other and then left the camp and then paid no further attention to the matter.
Q: Dr. Ding certainly knew whether or not he had experimental subjects that had been infected with lice, didn't he?
A: Yes, that he knew; but if Dr. Ding were told that the cages had leaks in them and that they constituted a danger of infecting not only the experimental persons but for everyone in the camp, including the SS officers, I am sure Dr. Ding would have washed his hands and left the camp, because Dr. Ding was not much of a hero.
Q: Who was the most powerful man, Dr. Ding or Dr. Hoven?
A: Without any doubt, Ding but so far as the illegal activities were concerned, Hoven was the man with more courage, and Ding was a conscientious SS man.
Q: When Dr. Ding was absent from Buchenwald who was in charge of Block 46?
A: Dr. Hoven was designated as his deputy, but I must add here that Dr. Hoven did not have the plenipotentiary powers to conclude the experimental series or begin a new one.
Q: Would they just stop the experiments and not do anything on them while Dr. Ding was away? In other words, if a person had typhus for experimental purposes, and they were to give him a vaccine or inoculate him later in the course of the experimental series and Dr. Ding left Buchenwald, Dr. Hoven became the deputy in name only and didn't do anything about the experimental series and subjects used out there and just completely neglected it all together?
A: Yes, I am convinced that Dr. Hoven never greatly interested himself in the typhus experiments and when Dr. Ding was absent the prisoner nurses in block 46 were so trained that they could take perfectly good care of the typhus cases in block 46.
Q: Do you know whether or not Dr. Hoven from your own personal knowledge ever selected inmates to be used at the experimental station, block 46?
A: I can answer that question perfectly definitely in the negative.
Q: You know for certain he never participated in any of these activities?
A: That I know for certain.
Q: Did you handle the records?
A: I saw the records several times in the prison office and there saw the signatures of Leclair and Serno and I know that these persons were in general selected from Berlin and were only German professional criminals or persons in preventive custody.
Q: Did you handle the records? Kindly answer my questions, doctor?
A: I often had the records in my hands, yes.
Q: Did you keep the records? Are you the clerk, were you the clerk in the hospital barracks?
A: No.
Q: Who was the clerk?
A: The prison index card file which had really nothing to do with this matter was under the charge of a man named Roemhild at that time, and the actual files themselves were always in Busse's room; Busse being the Kapo.
Q: Who was that first man?
A: Roemhild.
Q: Ferdinand Roemhild?
A: That is right.
Q: Thanks. Do you recall when block 50 was being constructed?
A: You probably mean when block 50 was started to be used as an experimental station?
Q: That is right.
A: I believe in 1941.
Q: Who had charge of equipping it, so that it could be used as an experimental station? Do you know whether or not it was Dr. Hoven?
A: Dr. Hoven equipped Block 50, but I believe you want to know the names of the prisoners who functioned there —
Q: No, I want to know whether or not Dr. Hoven had charge of equipping block 50?
A: Yes.
Q: How many inmates were there in Buchenwald concentration camp in 1940?
A: In 1940 there must have been no more than 5,000.
Q: How many deaths did you average a month through natural causes?
A: A very small number of natural deaths.
Q: Well how many would that be, ten, twenty, two hundred or five hundred?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, I should like to say that I cannot freely judge in this matter because I have read a great deal about Buchenwald since my release and have read a lot of statistics and on the basis of what I have read I could say that the number was about two percent.
Q: Two percent of five thousand?
A: Yes, that is what I ascertained, two percent of five thousand.
Q: How about 1941? How many inmates in the camp in 1941?
A: Here the development at the camp Buchenwald played a large role. In 1940 at the beginning of the Russian campaign innumerable prisoners of war were brought into the camp and then when the Ukraine was occupied there were innumerable Ukrainian prisoners so that the population of the camp increased rapidly. I believe in one year we had ten thousand new arrivals.
Q: Then in 1941 you had 15,000 people there, you think?
A: That must be approximately correct.
Q: How many deaths did you have then?
A: When the Russian prisoners of war came there were relatively many deaths because these men had walked from the border to the camp and were completely exhausted and emaciated and consequently died in relatively large numbers.
Q: Was it as much as five percent or ten percent?
A: Not as much as ten percent under any circumstances. If it had been possible from the very beginning to treat the captured Russians in the camp hospital, then in many cases death could have been avoided, but there were strict orders from Berlin that the concentration camp and prisoner of war camp, although the prisoner of war camp was within the barbed wire, were to be kept segregated from one another. For instance, a large number of German prisoners were punished because they threw bread over the fence to the Russians. Because of the fact that sick Russians could not be taken into the main hospital, a little special hospital was set up inside the Russian camp. The drugs—
Q: Doctor, just a moment. Can you kindly tell me whether or not the death rate was over five percent, under five percent, ten percent? Do you know? You have made a statement here in direct examination that in 1942 and 1943 the death rate dropped. Now, what was the death rate in 1941?
A: If I spoke of the decrease in the death rate, then I was talking about ordinary prisoners, but now at this moment I am talking about Russian prisoners of war for whom no aid measures had yet been taken.
Q: Well, let's forget the Russian prisoners of war for a moment and talk about ordinary prisoners, inasmuch as you have based your testimony on that. How many prisoners were there in 1941, still 5000, or was that reduced because there had been so many deaths each month? Were there 3800 or how many ordinary prisoners?
A: New arrivals of Germans took place all the time because the campaign against Russia started. All politically unreliable persons were arrested then as "actionists".
Q: How many ordinary prisoners were in the camp in 1941?
A: Approximately 8000.
Q: What was the death rate?
A: I would estimate that compared to the previous year it certainly didn't increase.
Q: It did not increase?
A: No.
Q: That would be two percent again, namely, about 160 people a month?
A: Yes.
Q: How many ordinary inmates were there in the camp in 1942?
A: I would expect that new arrivals amounted to 5000 people.
Q: Five thousand?
A: Yes.
Q: So there was a total of 5000 in 1942 or ordinary prisoners, or is that 13,000 — eight plus five?
A: Quite right — 13,000.
Q: Thirteen thousand. What was the death rate in those 13,000?
A: I believe that it would not exceed the two percent.
Q: Well, now, it dropped, didn't it? You said that when Hoven took over as camp doctor — and he took over in 1942 — the death rate dropped considerably. Now, did it drop one percent or one-half percent? In 1942 it was two percent and now we have a considerable drop because of the efficiency of Hoven. Did that drop lower than two percent now, or didn't it drop?
A: The death rate certainly did not increase.
Q: Did not increase? Did it decrease?
A: Yes, I assume so.
Q: Well, would you say that it would be rather exorbitant to state that 300 inmates died each month in 1942?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, the more the camp was crowded the worse the checks and controls in the camp became. Where one man used to live previously when there were 6,000 inmates there had to be two or possibly three later on. The larger the number of inmates became the worse the living conditions became, possibly not so much from the point of view of food but from the point of view of space.
Q: Well, now, didn't the camp doctor each month submit a report on the number of deaths that occurred during that particular month?
A: I have no information on that subject.
Q: Then you don't know what the death rate actually was, do you?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, I am here under oath. I have to think about every word.
Q: Well, now, did you see or didn't you see the death rate report that was signed by Dr. Hoven and was signed by the camp doctor before him? You had access to these records kept by Roemhild and Busse, Now, did you see these death reports?
A: Yes, they were always requested from Berlin concerning the number of inmates in the camp, and how many sick, how many capable of working, how many sent to other camps by transport, and how many dead.
Q: And you saw them?
A: I saw them often.
Q: Well, how many deaths did they allege a month, in round figures, in these reports that you saw in the year 1940?
A: I will take an average figure. It varied from 100 to 120.
Q: 1941? The year 1941 what was the figure?
A: This was in 1941.
Q: I asked you first what the figure in 1940 was and I want the figure now for 1941 and then I want the figure for 1942 and then I want the figure until you left in September 1943, bearing in mind, of course, that you saw these records.
Q: Mr. Prosecutor, with regard to the year 1940 I can't form an opinion or pass judgment because I didn't arrive there until 20 December 1940. As far as 1941 is concerned, I am giving you the figure 100 to 120.
Q: How many in 1942?
A: I would like to stress that quite often large transports arrived in Buchenwald, for instance, from Dachau, from Auschwitz. These people were very poorly fed on their way and had often been severely exposed to weather conditions that they died on the transport. They were unloaded at Buchenwald and immediately increased the death rate in that manner.
Q: How many people did you see Hoven kill?
A: I know definitely that Dr. Hoven killed five people, the names of which I gave you this morning in this court.
Q: Would you repeat those names again, please?
A: Firstly, Kushnir Kushnarew, a White Russian former general.
Q: Yes, and the other one?
A: Secondly, Bulla, a German national who came, I think, from Litznannstadt, and then there were three German professional criminals whose names I can no longer give you.
Q: Where did this killing take place?
A: In operating theater No. 2.
Q: Dr. Ding was present?
A: Yes.
Q: What did they kill them with?
A: With an injection.
Q: Phenol?
A: I don't know.
Q: Did anybody else assist the two doctors?
A: There were two prisoners with them.
Q: Who were they?
A: One of them came from Upper Silesia and I cannot give you the name any longer.
Q: You don't know of any other killings by Dr. Hoven?
A: No.
Q: You know that Dr. Hoven states in his affidavit that he participated indirectly or directly in the killing of 60?
A: I will admit that Dr. Hoven knew of killings carried out by the illegal camp administration.
Q: Now, these killings wherein so-called traitors were killed — Dr. Hoven tells me some of them were killed by inmates, is that right?
A: Yes. I can give you a very large number of cases when these people were handed over to the penal company and their fate was then definitely worse than those of Hoven killings, because the people were thrown out of a second story window of the block so that their skulls were crushed and trodden on with feet until finally dead.
Q: I see. Do you know whether or not camp commandant Koch ever requested that Dr. Hoven execute inmates?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, I believe if Commandant Koch had made such a demand to Hoven that Hoven would have refused unconditionally.
Q: Do you know whether or not Hoven ever offered himself to Koch for that purpose?
A: No.
Q: Do you know the name Goldstein?
A: No. I do know the name Goldstein from Auschwitz.
Q: Do you know the Goldstein that was killed in Buchenwald?
A: No.
Q: Did you ever hear the name Schiltemeyer, S-C-H-I-L-T-EM-E-Y-E-R?
A: No.
Q: Do you know whether he was killed or not at Buchenwald?
A: No.
Q: Did you ever hear the name C-O-L-L-I-N-E-T, Collinet?
A: Jupp Collinet, yes.
Q: Who killed him?
A: I know Jupp Collinet for a long time. Jupp Collinet very probably was killed by Hauptscharfuehrer [Staff Seargent] Leclair.
Q: He wasn't killed by Hoven?
A: No, he wasn't killed by Hoven, no.
Q: You know that for sure?
A: That I know for sure.
Q: Did you ever hear the name Titz — T-I-T-Z?
A: No.
Q: Do you know who killed him?
A: No. I don't know the name.
Q: Did you ever hear the name Freudemann — F-R-E-U-D-E-M-A-N-N?
A: I know the name Freudemann.
Q: You know that name?
A: Yes.
Q: Who killed him?
A: That I don't know; at any rate, not Dr. Hoven. Freudmann had played a vile role in that camp.
Q: How about May — M-A-Y?
A: The name May is also known to me.
Q: Who killed him?
A: May was killed by Hauptscharfuehrer Wilhelm.
Q: Did you ever hear the name Motz — M-O-T-Z?
A: I was together with the prisoner Motz at Dachau, but I didn't meet him again in Buchenwald.
Q: Did you ever hear whether or not Dr. Hoven was corrupt?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, if you want to understand under the expression "corrupt" that Hoven had a pair of boots made or had a part of his uniform made, then I wouldn't deny that he did, but, or the other hand, I know that these articles which were manufactured in the illegal work shop were only used in order to satisfy Camp Leaders Gust, Schobert and others in order to have them close their eyes to prisoners on some other occasion.
Apart from that, everything in the camp of Buchenwald was "corrupt", every human being wanting to live in the camp and wanting to live better than thousands of others had to be corrupt. Of course, not corrupt to the extent that others might perish in the process.
Q: Did you ever see people give Hoven rings, fountain pens, silk underwear, gold teeth, etc.?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, I believe that the defendant Hoven didn't need to have presents given to him by a prisoner.
Q: Are you familiar with this book written on Buchenwald?
(Shows book to witness)
A: Yes, I know it. I know all the literature published about Buchenwald.
Q: Will you kindly read from page 67 the paragraph I have marked? I don't have it translated, Your Honor, I merely want these paragraph read.
DR. GAWLIK: (Interrupting) I object, Mr. President, I object to the presentation of this book. It has not been introduced as a document. It is not a piece of evidence.
MR. HARDY: Your Honor, I will give it a number. I do not have my numbers. But I will give it a number and offer it formally later. I do not want to use it as a document now. I merely want to refresh the memory of the witness and if he can state whether the facts elicited in this book are true or false.
THE PRESIDENT: Exhibit the book to the Tribunal.
DR. GAWLIK: Apart from that, I deny the probative value of this book. It isn't in any way known by whom this book is written, he is not under oath, and the person by whom it is written should be brought to this court if it is to be presented. At this moment, particularly, so many books are being written containing the most exorbitant inaccuracies. In a trial like this one here, such a book can't possibly be called evidence. In that case, the person who wrote the book ought to be brought here and must be examined and like every witness, must submit to my cross examination.
MR. HARDY: I submit, Your Honor, that in the passages I wish to use in this book the writer there devotes one page to Dr. Hoven. He says that Dr. Hoven was camp physician in Buchenwald in 1940 and 1941 and worked out a racket with a prisoner named Motz whereby inmates of the penal company, for example, — prisoners who were treated somewhat worse than others in that penal company — would be admitted to the hospital for a few days if they would turn over their valuables like rings, fountain pens, silk underwear, gold teeth to this inmate, Motz. Then Motz, in turn, delivered the valuables to Hoven. Then if somebody didn't have valuables to offer, then they would be admitted to the hospital and done away with by injections. Now, I want to know if this witness is familiar with that particular episode.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection is overruled. The question is entirely proper. The book is not being offered in evidence, but the witness may be questioned as to statements appearing in the book.
WITNESS: In order to elucidate on this point that in Buchenwald no inmate —
DR. GAWLIK: (Interrupting) Mr. President, I want to, at least, have an opportunity to see the book before the witness makes a statement on it. As far as I have just been informed, it deals with the year 1940 and, at that time, Dr. Hoven was not even camp physician.
MR. HARDY: It deals with the years 1940 and 1941. I shall ask the witness to read the passage in the book which states that Dr. Hoven was the assistant camp doctor and that he was at the Buchenwald concentration camp serving in the hospital barracks.
THE PRESIDENT: What is your question to the witness? You asked the witness to read the passage referred to?
MR. HARDY: If your Honor desires. I would prefer rather have him read the passages —
THE PRESIDENT: The objection is overruled. The witness may read the passages and, then be questioned by counsel.
MR. HARDY: But for the Tribunal, inasmuch as I do not have this translated, if the witness would read the two paragraphs aloud then the Tribunal could follow my question.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. The witness will read the two paragraphs aloud.
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President, may I ask you to check your decision once again. By having those two paragraphs read they will go into the record and become evidence.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, the paragraphs will become part of the record but they are not evidence in the case at all. The purpose of reading them into the record is to enlighten the Tribunal as to what the witness is being questioned about, but reading them into the record does not make them evidence.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q: Would you kindly reading the passages which are marked, Mr. Dorn?
A: Certainly:
In 1940 and 1941 a new doctor arrived in Buchenwald, His name was Waldemar Hoven, SS-Obersturmfuehrer [Lieutenant], always kind and nice. He said about himself when he received the War Cross of Merit "You are no hero, but a man who pleases." Hoven was promoted to SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer [Captain] and became camp physician. With that began his actual career. He had many irons in the fire. One of his sources of supplies was a prisoner named Motz. He had room service to do in the penal company and it was up to him to produce the sick and weak prisoners from the penal company called the "Mouslemen" in the sick ward. The granting of a few days decent treatment in the hospital and easy work, granted through the doctor, or admission to the hospital depended upon what the individual delivered to Motz, fountain pens, rings, silk underwear, golden teeth, etc.
Parcels with laundry could be sent to every one, at the time, from home. Motz handed the major share over to Hoven. For this he received a free ticket for all his perpetrations which he committed against prisoners in the penal Company. Anyone who didn't give presents or pay to Motz was taken into the hospital and injected by Hoven. At the end Motz became a megalomaniac. He no longer had any feeling for proper measures applied to his master and fell into disfavor and one day was finished off within two hours: he was injected. Motz was only one of many sources of supplies for Hoven. He got furniture, carpets and radios for Obersturmfuehrer Voelker from the Building Brigade #3 from Cologne, one of our out side Kommandos. Prisoners who were working there were giving aid to bombed-out cities in cleaning-up operations.
Q: Did you ever hear of this?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, let me tell you, that I'd like to see the prisoner who still had a silk shirt in Buchenwald or a ring. I think I said this morning on one occasion how our wedding rings were pulled off our fingers when we were admitted. Valuables were taken over by the administration office and they were kept in the safe, and I can't give you the name of any prisoner who was walking about in the camp with a gold fountain pen in his pocket. Likewise, the entire affair Motz — you can believe me that — such an unscrupulous man as described here couldn't have survived five days of Buchenwald under such a system. By order of the illegal camp administration our comrades would probably have thrown him into the barbed wire fence. Such excesses in Buchenwald had become impossible in 1940. If you had said in Auschwitz then I am the first to get up here and say "yes", but for Buchenwald, since 1940, perfectly orderly conditions existed.
Q: Did you know Dr. Horn?
A: I knew Dr. Horn very well.
Q: Did Dr. Horn perform most of the operations in the hospital barracks?
A: He had to whether he wanted to or not, because Dr. Hoven certainly wasn't a good surgeon.
Q: Was Dr. Hoven studying under Dr. Horn?
A: Well, I always felt as if Horn was the man who was having to teach Hoven even the smallest type of operation.
Q: I see. Did you know Piek?
A: Do you mean the Dutch painter, Piek?
Q: Yes.
A: I know him very well, indeed.
Q: What was Piek's profession?
A: Piek was a painter by profession.
Q: Did he ever paint any portraits for Hoven?
A: I think not only for Hoven but for every SS leader in the camp. I know for certain, for instance, that he painted Dr. Ding as Wallenstein with a flying cloak.
Q: Did he paint portraits of Hoven's children?
A: That I couldn't possibly tell you here with certainty.
Q: Now, you say in block 46 Hoven only went to visit the tailor and shoemaker because he had set them up in business there where they would be free from bother by the SS. How often did he visit the shoemaker and tailor? Did he go over there two, three, four times a week; or how often?
A: Yes, you can say that Dr. Hoven visited the work shop generally frequently.
Q: How often would that be?
A: Every second day, quite frequently.
Q: When did they set up this tailor shop and shoe shop in Block 46, was it installed and equipped at the beginning or during the middle of 1941?
A: Well, I think the block hadn't been in existence for four weeks when the work shops had also been equipped. The situation at the beginning was that Block 46 could not be entered by anybody not a member of the SS, even with permission, and I believe Dr. Hoven was also affected by the prohibition, consequently the work shop would only have been constructed four to six weeks, or 6 weeks later.
Q: How long did the shoemaker and tailor stay in the shop in Block 46, for two years 1942 and 1943, or for how long were they there?
A: Quite decidedly until Hoven's arrest, because I don't remember that the matter was best opened in any other way previously.
Q: And Dr. Hoven only went to Block 46 to visit the tailor and shoemaker in the workshops, he didn't go there for the purposes of the experiments?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, if Dr. Hoven left Block 46 with a parcel under his arm or a pair of boots or a uniform jacket, I can't possibly and really imagine he got those from the sick ward. He probably got those from the work shop.
Q: I see. He went over there about every other day?
A: Every second day.
Q: Did Dr. Hoven have about 500 suits and 300 pairs of shoes he went there every other day for over two years?
A: Yes, that would be so, if Dr. Hoven hadn't been passing on these other things to other people, for instance Gust, Schobert and Biester, they all walked about with shoes soled in Block 46.
Q: In other words, Dr. Hoven, a man who was a concentration camp doctor where you had some 15,000 inmates and you had about 260 dying each month had time to go see the shoe man and tailor every other day?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, the facts are that the medical work, in fact that the doctors' work in Buchenwald was in the hands of prison doctors in a very considerable extent, for instance you only have to think of the systematic training of nurses. We had an evening school for two or three hours every evening given by Dr. Matuschek and Dr. Horn.
Q: Do you know who wrote Dr. Hoven's thesis, did he write it himself or was his thesis to become a doctor written by Dr. Wegerer of Vienna?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, all I can tell you is what I happened to read a few days ago in a book. It says there that Dr. Hoven's thesis had been written by a certain Dr. Wegerer from Vienna. This man is supposed to be a doctor or professor of chemistry. I read that a few days ago. I can't give you any certain information on that subject.
Q: In the hospital barracks how often did you see Hoven, did you see him continually each day?
A: I saw him daily.
Q: You saw him also administer injections to five persons, that is all?
A: That killing I observed.
Q: And you state that Dr. Hoven is correct in his figure of 60 killings either by inmates or by himself?
A: I can't answer that.
Q: And these inmates, according to Dr. Hoven's affidavit, 60 persons were killed and others were beaten; of those 60 persons he states that some of them were killed by inmates, is that right?
(No response.)
Do you have a copy of Dr. Hoven's affidavit, please?
This is paragraph 12, Document Book 12, Document NO 429 on page 5 of the German, paragraph 12; will you kindly read that, Mr. Dorn, an affidavit by the defendant Waldemar Hoven?
A: (reading)
The total number of killed traitors was approximately 150, 60 of which were killed by phenol injections either by myself or under my direction, and the rest were killed by various methods such as beatings by the inmates.
Q: Well now, he states that there were killings either by himself or under his direction, is that right?
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President I wish to object to the submission of this affidavit. The affidavit hasn't yet been admitted in evidence. It is an affidavit that has not yet been admitted. Its admission has been retarded until defendant Hoven is put on the stand.
MR. HARDY: I was not aware of that, your Honor. It bears an exhibit number. It isn't a fact that it is not admitted in evidence. This is something new today. We have been using it throughout our cross-examination continually. It certainly has been admitted into evidence. If it hasn't been admitted which is something I can't imagine, then it has been overlooked by the Prosecution in the presentation of its case in chief, and we submit it at this time. The document is in order, it contains a jurat, is sworn to and signed by the defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: The first question is to determine whether the document has been admitted in evidence. I will ask the Secretary General to produce the original document and determine how it is marked.
MR. HARDY: Do you have the prosecution exhibit number? Your Honor, I don't know the exhibit number off-hand.
THE PRESIDENT: It is document No. 4200.
MR. HARDY: Do you have the Prosecution exhibit number marked in your document book, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDENT: I cannot tell from this book. There is a symbol after that, but what it is I —
MR. HARDY: Mr. Travis will have it in his file of the prosecution numbers.
If he will call my office phone, 61212 and ask for Dr. Hochwald to give him the prosecution exhibit number of that document, he will be able to secure it.
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President, I had placed an objection to the admissibility of this document, it has once been submitted and then its submission was put back until Dr. Hoven has been examined. I haven't got the record of that before me. I will have to wait until tomorrow, but I could submit the record of it.
MR. HARDY: Your Honor, I submit if that is true then all the other documents admitted in evidence were admitted incorrectly by this Tribunal. This document here is no different from any other affidavit we have submitted. I am sure it was admitted and there is prosecution exhibit number, and I would like to finish up my examination and I only have three or four more questions and clear them from his affidavit.
DR. GAWLIK: I have given detailed reasons for my objection. The document was submitted to Dr. Hoven at that time in the English language and not in German, and Dr. Hoven has not sufficient control of the English language for the knowledge of examining on it. No interpreter was present at that time. That was the cause of the objection and the Tribunal decided that admission would be put back until after the examination of Dr. Hoven. For that reason, I will object to today's use of the document.
MR. HARDY: I proceed to another question or two, Your Honor, while we are waiting for the document.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q: Mr. Dorn, do you know for what reason Dr. Hoven was arrested by the SS?
A: I can only repeat my explanation which I gave this morning. As far as I am informed Dr. Hoven was arrested because the suspicion existed against him he was cooperating with prisoners, cooperating with them extremely closely and as time progressed the suspicion increased.
Professor, Dr. Hoven is supposed to have been arrested because of the case with Hauptscharfuehrer Koehler. Just how this affair developed is something I am not informed about. I only know that it was 12 September 1943 Hoven was arrested on leaving the camp.
Q: Do you know whether or not any other officers of the camp were arrested at the same time?
A: I know that the commandant Koch was arrested, but I can't tell you with certainty today whether Koch was arrested earlier or later than Hoven, and I know at that time Oberscharfuehrer [Squad Leader] Sommer was arrested. I don't know what connections there were.
Q: You don't know whether Koch was also arrested for collaboration with the inmates?
A: Koch? I think he was the biggest devil we prisoners ever clamped eyes upon.
Q: Do you know whether or not Hoven was indicted after being arrested?
A: That I do not know, because on the 20th of September 1943 I left Buchenwald and then never again established contact with Buchenwald.
Q: Do you know whether or not the camp commandant Koch and Hoven were indicted in the same indictment?
A: No, I don't know.
Q: Do you know that Camp Commandant Koch and Dr. Hoven were charged with fraudulent conversion of Reichs' funds, of frauds on concentration camp inmates for their own benefits, and condoning and festering corruption in the camps.
A: Mr. Prosecutor, I know that Koch and his brother-in-law, Hauptscharfuehrer Michael were arrested for corrupt actions in the camp.
Q: You know that Hoven was arrested in the same case along with Koch?
A: No. My information is to the effect that it was because of the case of Hauptscharfuehrer Koehler that Koch was arrested.
Q: Who? Hauptscharfuehrer who?
A: Hauptscharfuehrer Koehler.
Q: Was he a witness against Koch?
A: I can't tell you that. If I had remained in Buchenwald then I would certainly have had the exact details the fortnight after Hoven was arrested.
Q: Well, what was the reason why the Hauptscharfuehrer was connected with the arrest of Hoven?
A: Well, the Hauptscharfuehrer Kuehler was imprisoned by the commandant's office at the time.
MR. HARDY: Your Honor, this affidavit of Hoven has been admitted into evidence as Prosecution Exhibit No. 281.
THE PRESIDENT: Submit the document to the Tribunal. Submit the document to the defense counsel. Apparently it has been in evidence as a prosecution exhibit.
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President, this exhibit, the affidavit, as far as I remember, was given the number when it was submitted and I raised the objection. Following that, the Tribunal's decision was made to my recollection. I can only now recall from memory but I will submit the statement to the Tribunal when I can read the record and all of the defense counsel are willing to concur in the fact that the admission of the document was put back.
MR. HARDY: Then your honor, I submit this document has been admitted into evidence, if it had not been admitted into evidence it would not now be in the hands of the Secretary General but it would still be in the hands of the prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT: Certainly, if appears that the document has been admitted in evidence, it has been assigned a number. It is almost time for a recess until tomorrow morning and after the Tribunal recesses this evening, the entire matter can be studied, the record can be read and the testimony at the time can be examined.
MR. HARDY: Your Honor, I have only one or two questions on this document. If it is necessary I will offer it now and give it another exhibit number. It is in good order, it has a jurat on it, it is signed by the affiant and dated. It is perfectly admissible.
THE PRESIDENT: That would be saving no time and it would probably take longer than until the recess time.
I well remember in connection with at least one of these affidavits by one of the defendants, either by this one — although I believe it was another defendant that a question was raised as to an affidavit and the Tribunal admitted the affidavit but ruled that when the defendant took the witness stand he could be asked concerning the circumstances under which the affidavit was made and at that time its probative value before the Tribunal would be considered, but the mere fact that an affidavit has been admitted in evidence does not establish its probative value as the Tribunal may consider it because circumstances may be shown when the affiant takes the witness stand that would defy the affidavit and if so more or less weight might or might not be the case.
Are there any other questions you can propound to the witness without using the affidavit now?
MR. HARDY: After looking it over, Your Honor, I can propound the same questions without using the affidavit.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q: Was Dr. Hoven assisted by inmates when he performed these killings in the hospital barracks of the Buchenwald concentration camp?
A: I did not understand your question correctly, Mr. Prosecutor.
Q: Was Dr. Hoven assisted by inmates when he performed these killings in the Buchenwald concentration camp?
A: Yes, there were two prisoners who were present.
Q: Did other inmates ever kill the so-called traitor inmates in the concentration camp?
A: Did other prisoners kill the so-called traitors in the concentration camp; was that your question?
Q: Yes, were other traitor prisoners killed in the concentration camp by inmates.
A: Very often.
Q: Was that done under the supervision of Dr. Hoven?
A: No.
Q: Did he know about it?
A: He could not know because death reports always were made to appear that it was a normal death.
Q: What did the inmates kill the so-called traitor inmates with; did they kill them by injections?
A: Mr. Prosecutor, I have already told you once before what the scene looked like in the penal company, they were thrown out of the second floor window and it really happened that prisoners used the so called injection syringe, but these were few and far between.
Q: How many inmate assistants did Dr. Hoven have in his capacity as camp doctor?
A: Do you mean those who worked with Dr. Hoven all the time?
Q: Yes.
A: It was generally Dr. Horn and Dr. Matuschek in OP 1 — Internal Operations in the Medical wing. OP 2 there was a certain Hellmuth Diemann and another man and I can no longer remember his name, I do know that the man came from Upper Silesia and I can see him with my own eyes but I cannot remember the name. He had a Polish name which it is difficult for me to pronounce.
Q: How many nurses did he have; men in your capacity?
A: Altogether possibly 90 men, possible more than that.
Q: Now, realizing you are under oath, can you tell this Tribunal how many men you assisted in the killing of with Dr. Hoven?
A: To that I can answer with a calm conscience that I did not assist with a single killing, nor assist in any manner, nor was I present at any time.
Q: How many men did you kill when Dr. Hoven was not present?
A: I have never killed a human being.
Q: You had access to the drugs, didn't you?
A: No, but to the phenol drugs no one had access.
Q: Then you know they used phenol in killings in Buchenwald?
A: I think everybody who ever worked in the sick bay knew that.
Q: I have no further questions, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, how much time will your re-examination of this witness consume?
DR. GAWLIK: I just heard that my colleague, Dr. Nelte, has a few questions and I would say about fifteen to twenty minutes for myself.
THE PRESIDENT: I would desire that the investigation be made now before tomorrow morning to ascertain the status of this affidavit of the defendant Hoven. The Tribunal would like to knew whether it was formally admitted in evidence or whether it was not because the record indicates it was and if the record is incorrect. The Tribunal would like to be advised.
The Tribunal will be in recess until 9:30 o'clock tomorrow morning.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will be in recess until 9:30 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 0930 o'clock, 6 June 1947.)