1947-07-01, #3: Doctors' Trial (early afternoon)

AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 1 July 1947)

THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.

DR. SEIDL (consel for the defendants Gebhardt and Fischer): Mr. President, on last Saturday in connection with Document Book 18, the Prosecution offered an affidavit of the camp commandant Suhren. This is NO-3648, Exhibit 350. I objected to the admission of this document. The court overruled, my objection but said that to refute these statements I could submit an affidavit from the Defendant Karl Gebhardt. I have obtained this affidavit in the meantime, and this morning I sent four copies of it to the Translation Branch. I should like to offer this as Gebhardt Exhibit 55. It is Document 47.

THE PRESIDENT: What number did you wish to be assigned to this exhibit, Counsel?

DR. SEIDL: Gebhardt 45. I have no translation of this document yet, Mr. President, but I am in a position to give the Tribunal four copies in German so that the document number can be entered.

THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for the Prosecution, are you at all familiar with the document?

MR. HARDY: No, I am not familiar with the document, your Honor; however, it is a document of the Defendant Gebhardt. It is sworn to, and as a matter of convenience and expeditiousness, I will not object to it if an English copy is filed with us in due course.

THE PRESIDENT: How long is the affidavit, Counsel?

DR. SEIDL: Nine pages, but it is written widely spaced.

MR. HARDY: Of course, Your Honor, this is an answer to document which I consider to be true rebuttal evidence. The Defendant has taken the stand, and in the testimony of the defense he has given his opinion as to the status of the girls, and the affidavit of Fritz Suhren gives the opinion of the camp commandant at that time as to the status of the inmates in the camp and other particulars which were testified to by the Defendant Gebhardt.

The affidavit of Fritz Suhren doesn't bring any now evidence, and this is an answer to the affidavit. In my opinion in the theory of the law it is incorrect to introduce this, and it would be erroneously received, inasmuch as the affidavit of Fritz Suhren is in the nature of true rebuttal.

THE PRESIDENT: I think it would be better to wait until the last of the documents are offered so that we might probably have the English translation. We will pass the document at this time and consider it at some later date.

I would state for the benefit of counsel for both parties that this noon I spoke with the head of the Translation Department. I talked with him Saturday, Mr. Hodges, and he told me that every document which he had last Saturday, would be available for this Tribunal tomorrow morning, Wednesday morning. He informs me today that his promise will be carried out, that every document that he had at the time I spoke to him last Saturday will be ready tomorrow morning. He also informed me that he had received several documents for translation yesterday, some on behalf of the Defendant Handloser, some on behalf of the Defendant Rose, and some documents from another defendant whose name he had forgotten. It seems to me that as far as Defendants Mrugowsky and Handloser and concerned there is little excuse for the late date these documents were turned into the Translation. As to the other defendants, I am not advised, but we will see what we have tomorrow morning.

Counsel for the Prosecution is ready to proceed with his documents?

MR. HARDY: Your Honor, I should now like to proceed with the documents which the Prosecution have introduced during the course of the defense and which documents have been marked for identification only. I will distribute a limited number of copies of indexes and documents of these particular documents which were marked fer identification, in English and in German; and during the presentation of these documents for formal admittance, the Prosecution would appreciate any suggestions from the Tribunal in connection with the introduction thereof. I have four copies of the complete documents with indexes for the Tribunal.

The two that I presented to Judge Sebring and Justice Beals yesterday were a little out of order in one or two instances, but these, I am assured, are in better order; and I think that if you will refer to these you will have a better index and all the documents complete. At the same time, I have one copy for the interpreters in English and one for the court reporters. We have four remaining copies in German for the defense counsel. Bearing in mind, of course, Your Honor, that ail parties have previously received copies of these documents. These are merely for convenience.

THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will hand these documents to the Tribunal.

MR. HARDY: If Your Honors please, for convenience, if you will take the last document, on the bottom of all, that should be the first one which I introduce which is Exhibit No. 442. You see the asterisk on page 1 which refers to the last page. This is Exhibit 442, which is Document NO-892. Put that on the top, and then I think ore can continue along in order until we hit another snag. And as I go through these, Your Honor —

THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, Counsel.

MR. HARDY: Yes, sir.

THE PRESIDENT: The last document —

MR. HARDY: The last document was No. 892.

THE PRESIDENT: That doesn't seem to be here, Counsel.

MR. HARDY: Perhaps it's been put on top.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, that is on top. I thought you referred to the last document in the book. Very well.

MR. HARDY: The first document is Document NO-892, which is Exhibit 442, which I offer at this time formally for admission into evidence.

THE PRESIDENT: Can you state, Counsel, in connection with each document the name of the defendant in connection with whose evidence these documents were identified?

MR. HARDY: That would be almost an impossibility.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well, I just asked for the information.

MR. HARDY: However, this is a euthanasia document.

I think I can do that, Your Honor. Miss Johnson has prepared a list for me.

This document NO-892, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 442, was introduced during the course of the cross examination of Karl Brandt and is found on page 2540 of the official transcript.

THE PRESIDENT: What page, Counsel?

MR. HARDY: The page is contained in the index, Your Honor. The index has the page of the official transcript.

THE PRESIDENT: That is in the right-hand column?

MR. HARDY: That is right, Your Honor.

THE PRESIDENT: All right.

MR. HARDY: Will I assume, Your Honor, that these documents are accepted into evidence and continue right along unless there are objections to the contrary?

JUDGE SEBRING: Mr. Hardy.

MR. HARDY: Yes, Your Honor.

JUDGE SEBRING: I notice in several of those there is a reference; well, in 890, for example, "on the basis of a letter directed to Professor Dr. Brandt"; and, if you can, when you come to the documents referring to Dr. Brandt, if it is convenient for you to do so, will you indicate whether that is Karl Brandt or Rudolf Brandt?

MR. HARDY: Yes, Your Honor.

JUDGE SEBRING: And also it appears that some of these copies do not have signatures, and it may be that the originals do. If they do, will you please give us the documents — for example, the last exhibit, 442 — I don't know whether that had a signature or not.

MR. HARDY: The last exhibit does not have a signature, Your Honor. It is a certified copy by the — I think it is the prosecutor or the court officer in Frankfurt from whom we received the copy. It is purported to be a copy of the original.

JUDGE SEBRING: The latter itself evidently has a signature, because the word "signature" is written there, but the name is not transcribed.

MR. HARDY: That is right, Your Honor. The name wasn't reproduced.

THE PRESIDENT: These documents, as they are called to the attention of the Tribunal and offered, will be considered as received in evidence unless there is an objection, in which event, of course, the objection will be heard and decided.

MR. HARDY: There is one other point I want to clarify, Your Honors. When I refer to these documents which are submitted during the cross-examination of a particular defendant I do not limit the document and the contents thereof to that particular defendant's case. It may well fit into other defendants' cases.

THE PRESIDENT: That will be understood.

MR. HARDY: The second is Document NO-890, which is offered as prosecution Exhibit No. 443. This was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Karl Brandt and is found on page 2500 of the transcript. The original letter, Your Honors, contains a signature which I am unable to decipher and is illegible, unless it could be deciphered by other German handwriting experts.

The next is Document NO-1758, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 444. This is found on page 2545 of the official transcript. These are excerpts from General Halder's diary. The diary was taken in shorthand. The original shorthand notes were transcribed into German and duly certified, Your Honor.

THE PRESIDENT: What is the number of that document, Counsel?

MR. HARDY: That will be Exhibit 444. The document number is NO-1758.

The next document is Document NO-119, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 445, found on page 2638 of the transcript, and is an order of the Fuehrer regarding the release of doctors from their professional discretion. This is an original letter, Your Honor, which is on the official stationery, of the National Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei and was found by the Prosecution in the document center in Vienna, and is duly certified.

This is also offered in connection with the case of Karl Brandt.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-154, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 446, which is found also on page 2638 of the official transcript, and this is a report on some experiments with the decontamination of water. The original exhibit is a photostatic copy which is signed. This was found by myself personally in the files of the Reich Research Council in Frankfurt.

The next document is Document NO-1419, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 447, which is found on page 2641 of the official transcript and is a letter from Rudolf Brandt to Karl Wolff regarding the food experiments in concentration camps. Pardon me, Your Honor -correction — it is a letter from Karl Brandt to Wolff, and it bears the original signature of the defendant Karl Brandt.

The next document is NO-1382, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 448 and is found on page 2644 of the official transcript, during the course of the cross examination of the defendant Karl Brandt. These are two telegrams, Your Honor.

The next document is NO-1620, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 449 and found during the cross examination of Karl Brandt, on page 2646 of the official transcript. This is a memorandum from Grawitz to Himmler on proposed medical experiments and then the reply of Rudolf Brandt for Himmler. The original exhibits contain the original signature of Reichsarzt [Reich Physician] SS Grawitz and also the initials of the Defendart Rudolf Brandt.

The next is 1490, NO-1490, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 450, which is found on page 3024 of the official transcript. These are two letters regarding the Handloser appointment to the Reich Research Council, which were introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Handloser. These are in the original, Your Honor, with an envelope attached thereto. One has the typewritten signature of Fromm, and the other has a signature which I am unable to make out, and you recall that there was a note on the top regarding Professor Rostock.

The next is a statement by the Defendant Handloser, which is NO-732, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 451. It is found on page 3060 of the official transcript. This was likewise offered during the course of the cross examination of the Defendant Handloser.

The next is Document NO-1323, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 452, which is found on page 3082 of the official transcript and bears the original signature of the Defendant Handloser. It has an attachment thereto and it concerns spotted fever or typhus vaccines.

The next —

JUDGE SEBRING: Wait just a minute, please. No. 732 was 451?

MR. HARDY: Yes, Your Honor.

JUDGE SEBRING: No. 1323 was 452?

MR. HARDY: Yes, Your Honor.

JUDGE SEBRING: And No. 1321 is 453?

MR. HARDY: That is what it will be, Your Honor. I am getting to that now. Do Your Honors have copies of the index before you?

JUDGE SEBRING: Yes.

MR. HARDY: Next is Document NO-1321, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 453, which is found on page 3083 of the official transcript and was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Handloser.

The next document, Your Honors, is NO-1315, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 454. It is found on page 3086 of the official transcript and was offered during the cross examination of the Defendant Handloser. It contains the original signature of one Dr. Bieber.

The next is Document NO-1318, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 455. It is found on page 3090 of the official transcript and was offered during the cross examination of the Defendant Handloser.

This contains an original signature which is reported to be illegible in the translation and I, unfortunately, am unable to decipher it.

THE PRESIDENT: That, Counsel, is Document 1315?

MR. HARDY: 1318, Your Honor. It is offered as Exhibit 455 as indicated on the index.

The next document, Your Honor, is Document NO-1852, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 456, which is found on page 3406 of the official transcript and was introduced during the course of the cross-examination of the Defendant Rostock. At that time it was objected to by Dr. Servatius. The original copies of the documents were sent here from Natzweiler and were exhibited to Defense Counsel, and he informed me orally that he withdrew objection after having the opportunity to peruse the original documents.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-692, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 457, found on page 3408 of the official transcript and was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Rostock. This is a list of research assignments from the office of the Chief of Science and Research. The Defendant Brandt signed, the original signature by the Defendant Rostock.

The next document, Your Honor, is Document NO-934, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 458, and which is found on page 3655 of the official transcript and is a list of further assignments in research in connection with the office of the Reich Research Council and the Chief of the Medical Services. That is the office of Dr. Brandt, Karl Brandt.

The next document, Your Honor, is Document NO-232, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 459. It is found on page 4237 of the official transcript and is a letter from Gebhardt to Brandt regarding experiments at Dachau.

JUDGE SEBRING: Which Brandt?

MR. HARDY: This should be Rudolf Brandt, Obersturmbannfuehrer [Lieutenant Colonel] Dr. Brandt.

That is to be found during the cross examination of the Defendant Gebhardt.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-919 which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 460, found on page 4244 of the official transcript was offered during the cross examination of the Defendant Gebhardt. This is a Himmler order regarding experimentation on concentration camp inmates.

THE PRESIDENT: One moment, counsel. I don't seem to have that in order.

MR. HARDY: That's 919, Your Honor.

THE PRESIDENT: I have it.

MR. HARDY: Now, if you will turn to the second page of the index Your Honor, you will come to Document NO-190, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 461, which is found on page 4714 of the official transcript and was introduced during the course of the examination of the Defendant Blome.

The next document, Your Honor—

THE PRESIDENT: Just a minute Counsel.

MR. HARDY: Yes, Your Honor.

THE PRESIDENT: Counsel on the top of the second page of this index I find Document 1185.

MR. HARDY: The second page?

THE PRESIDENT: No, Page 2 is omitted from my index. That's the top of Page 3, but I have no Page 2.

MR. HARDY: I will send you up a Page 2 Your Honor.

THE PRESIDENT: I have one. I have another Page 2 here.

MR. HARDY: On Page 2, Your Honor, the top document is NO-190. It is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 461 and is found in the transcript on pages 4714 and was introduced during the examination of the Defendant Blome. Are you in order now, Your Honor?

THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment — yes.

MR. HARDY: The next document is No-1424, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 462, found on page 4773 of the official transcript and was offered during the examination of the Defendant Blome. The next document is NO-1057, which is Prosecution Exhibit No. 463, found on page 4783 of the transcript, and was offered during the examination of the Defendant Blome.

This bears the original initial of the Defendant Rudolf Brandt.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-1368, which is Prosecution Exhibit 464, found on page 4807 of the official transcript and was introduced during the examination of the Defendant Blome. It bears the original initials of the Defendant Roudolf Brandt. The next document, Your Honor, is Document NO-435, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 465. It is found on page 4983 of the transcript and was offered during the examination of the Defendant Rudolf Brandt. It has thereon various signatures, and letters from Himmler are attached thereto, and we will find endorsements which contain the original initials of the Defendant Rudolf Brandt. The Tribunal will recall that he properly identified them during the course of his examination.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-1198, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 466, found on page 5390 of the official transcript and is a letter from Grawitz to Mrugowsky which was introduced during the examination of the Defendant Mrugowsky. It is signed in a typewritten signature by Grawitz and then "by order of Grawitz," and the original signature of one, "Nicolai" appears on the original document.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-1303, which is Prosecution Exhibit 467, found on page 5400 of the official transcript and is a letter from Mrugowsky to the Reichsarzt SS, bearing the initials of the Defendant Mrugowsky.

The next document, Your Honor, is NI-034, which is an affidavit of a witness named Rudolf Hoess, and it is Prosecution Exhibit 468, found on page 5407 of the transcript and was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Mrugowsky.

This also bears a jurat thereon to the signature of Rudolf Hoess, of one Alfred H Buch, who is duly authorized by the chief of counsel to administer oaths. Your Honors will notice that in addition to this affidavit, which I may not have called to your attention during the course of the cross examination of the Defendant Mrugowsky, is a rather elaborate chart of the concentration camps in Germany. The Prosecution did not have this reproduced for the convenience of the Tribunal. However, the Tribunal will note that is is attached to the original, and if they desire photostatic copies thereof, they may well have the Secretary General reproduce them for their use.

Now, I just noticed this myself when I looked at the original exhibit.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be glad to have those photostatic copies.

MR. HARDY: It is nothing of evidential value, I think, Your Honor, other than the location of particular concentration camps.

DR. FLEMMING (For Mrugowsky): Mr. President, I object to the submission of this chart. It was not included when the document was offered originally. I do not know this chart and therefore I must object, since I do not know what it shows.

MR. HARDY: I am not offering it in evidence, Your Honor, I was merely calling it to your attention. It is immaterial to me whether it is accepted into evidence or not. I thought for the convenience of the Tribunal if they would like to see a detailed map concerning the location of concentration camps, it is there for your perusal.

THE PRESIDENT: It is not received in evidence, not having been offered in evidence.

MR. HARDY: The next is Document NO-1305, Your Honor, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 469, which is found on page 5426 of the official transcript and was offered during the course of the cross examination of the Defendant Mrugowsky.

DR. GAWLICK: Mr. President, I should like to have the Prosecution explain whether this ehxibit is to be used only against the Defendant Mrugowsky or also against the Defendant Dr. Hoven, who is mentioned in it.

MR. HARDY: I think I have amply explained that in our briefs, Your Honor. I am not in a position today to elaborate on each document. I have here several documents that number up into the fifties, and it would place a burden upon me, as one prosecutor, to enable each one of these defense counsel — I am not in a position to write a brief for each one of them at this time.

THE PRESIDENT: When defendants' counsel receive the briefs of the Prosecution, the defendants' counsel will be fully advised as to which documents are relied upon as evidence against which particular defendant or defendants.

MR. HARDY: I might state that he may rest assured that this document will be used against him if it has any connection with the typhus experiments at Buchenwald, and he may guide himself accordingly in his brief.

The next Document is NO-1188, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 470, which is found on page 5437 of the official transcript and was offered during the cross examination of the Defendant Mrugowsky. This has the original signature of Lolling. The next is Document NO-1189, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 471 and is found in the original transcript on page 5440 and was offered during the cross examination of the Defendant Mrugowsky, and you will recall at that time that the document was objected to by Defense Counsel and that the defendant himself indicated that he was fully aware of the contents of the document, and at that time the objection was withdrawn.

THE PRESIDENT: Just delay a moment, Counsel, before offering the next document.

MR. HARDY: Yes, Your Honor. I want to call to the Tribunal's attention that this last document also bears thereon the original signature of Dr. Ding. It's in the left-hand corner, second page of the original document.

The next document. Your Honor, is Document No-1197, which is introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 472 and is found on page 5451 of the official transcript and bears the signature of the Defendant Mrugowsky. If I recall correctly, he properly Identified that as his signature during cross examination. The next is Document NO-2734, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 473, which is found on page 5622 of the official transcript. It is a letter from Grawitz to Himmler regarding clinical surgical experimentation by Gebhardt, with enclosures. The original has the signature of Grawitz thereon; it also has the original signature of the Defendant Gebhardt and a note thereon, and in addition to that, on the last page of the document, we note the original signature of the Defendant Poppendick, which was properly identified by the Defendant in the course of his examination. This was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Poppendick.

DR. SEIDL (for Gebhardt): Mr. President, I object to the admission of this document at the present time. Document NO-2734 was not shown to the Defendant Karl Gebhardt in cross examination but to the Defendant Poppendick. It was obviously shown to the Defendant Poppendick only in order to determine the correctness of his signature at the end of the document.

Only one photostatic copy was shown to the Defendant Dr. Poppendick on the witness stand by the Prosecution. Defendant Gebhardt nor I myself had any knowledge of the contents of this document. Today I see this document for the first time. Consequently I have had no opportunity to present any evidence against the contents of this document. In view of the fact that the Prosecution has not as yet given the Defense any copies of this Document, I make application that this document be admitted only for identification but not as an exhibit.

MR. HARDY: May it please Your Honors, it amazed me no end that Dr. Seidl hasn't seen this before, because it was a topic of conversation here for several weeks that we had a document, an original report of the experiments of Gebhardt, and it seems to me that I recall even chatting with Defense Counsel about it, but I may be recalling incorrectly. However, this document is a rebuttal document in the same manner as all the rest. The Defendant Gebhardt took this stand and said that Mrugowsky had nothing to do with these experiments. Right in this document he thanks or wishes to thank Mrugowsky, Blumenreuther, and so forth for their assistance. This document is in the nature of a rebuttal document. It is a German document, and it couldn't be any more original than it is. It has been in the hands of Defense Counsel, to my knowledge, Defense Counsel for Poppendick had it for several days and had the opportunity to observe it, and whether or not the Defendant Gebhardt had an opportunity to be heard on the document is immaterial. It is a rebuttal document. It rebuts the testimony of the Defendant Gebhardt directly. I wish to pass it up to Your Honors, for your perusal.

As a matter of fact, Your Honor, it would have been introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Gebhardt had we received it. We found it coincidentally on the morning of the cross examination of Poppendick and it had his signature thereon. That's why I used it immediately. At that time it had not been processed but since then it has been processed, and I have been informed that copies have been delivered to defense counsel immediately upon the completion of the processing, which was during the course of the case of Poppendick. I am not certain, but as I remember this document was introduced on 9 April, and this is now 1 July.

THE PRESIDENT: The final record, on page 5622 as shown on this index would show what happened. The document will be received in evidence.

Counsel for the Defendant Gebhardt, of course, may make any argument in his brief against the application of this document to his client that he deems to be well founded.

MR. HARDY: The next document, Your Honor, is NO-1639, which is introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 474. It is found on page 5622 of the record. It was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Poppendick. This document bears the original signature of the Reichsarzt SS, Dr. Grawitz.

THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, I don't—

— That is correct.

MR. HARDY: The next document, Your Honor, is NO —

THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, Counsel, I don't observe that this document bears the signature of Grawitz.

MR. HARDY: This is a letter by Grawitz to the Reichsarzt-SS on sterilization dated 7 September 1942.

THE PRESIDENT: The pages were not clipped together. I assumed that the exhibit constituted only the first page which is a complete document.

JUDGE SEBRING: I notice that in your schedule you have 1639 and 1639-A.

MR. HARDY: That is correct, Your Honor.

JUDGE SEBRING: And yet you have three pages of one document called NO-1639.

MR. HARDY: Just a moment. I think at that time I was introducing them with two different signatures, and it was Your Honor's suggestion that I break them up into NO-1639 and NO-1639-A. One is a letter of Grawitz and that's perhaps why it indicates 1 of 3 pages, because we broke them up for convenience at that time, if my memory serves me correctly. 1639 is merely the correspondence to Himmler signed by Grawitz.

JUDGE SEBRING: That will be 474 and the letter by Poppendick will be 475?

MR. HARDY: That is correct, Your Honor.

The next document is NO-1639-a, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 475 and is found on page 5622 of the record, which is a letter signed by the Defendant Poppendick, and his original signature appears thereon.

Do you have that straightened out now, Your Honor?

THE PRESIDENT: What number document was that, Counsel?

MR. HARDY: That was 1639-A, which is Prosecution Exhibit it 475.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, we have that.

MR. HARDY: Right, now the next one. The next one is NO-1184, which is Prosecution Exhibit 476. This is found on page 5639 and was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Poppendick and bears the original signature of the Defendant Poppendick.

JUDGE SEBRING: Incidentally, on the left-hand side appears a hand-written statement "Ding for processing". In what handwriting is that?

MR. HARDY: That's Dr. Ding's signature in the left-hand corner, Your Honor. The other writing seems to be the same penmanship, but I recognize that as Dr. Ding's signature.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO 1182, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 477, which is on page 5641 of the official transcript and was offered during cross examination of the Defendant Poppendick and bears the original signature of one Vonkennel. This is an original German document on the stationery of Vonkennel.

DR. FLEMMING: Mr. President, for Mrugowsky. In connection with document NO-1184, Judge Sebring said there was a signature at the left. Mr. Hardy said that was the signature of Ding. There isn't any signature on the left here. I should like to see the original. (Looks at original) That was not copied.

MR. HARDY: The next document, Your Honor, reference will be found on page 3 of the index. The first document on page 3 is NO-1185, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 478, which is found on page 5648 of the transcript and was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Poppendick, and this bears the original initials of Dr. Ding.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-975. It was offered as Prosecution Exhibit 479, which is found on page 5837 of the official transcript and was introduced during cross examination of the Defendant Sievers. This is a file copy of a letter to Professor Hirt.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-978. It is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 480, found on page 5843 of the record and was offered during the cross examination of the Defendant Sievers. It is a letter from Sievers to Gluecks. Pardon me. This is a plan of Military Scientific Research to be carried out in the concentration camp Natzweiler. The original exhibit is a copy and a notation that a copy was also sent to Professor Hirt.

No signature appears on the carbon copy. However, the rank of SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer appears below where the signature should appear. It is from the Chief of the Ahnenerbe [Ancestral Heritage] and is assumed to be the Defendant Sievers' letter.

The next is Document NO-935, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 481, found on page 5845 of the record, was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Sievers. The first letter in this document bears the initials of Sievers, and in addition the second letter has the signature of Sievers thereon.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-977, which is Prosecution Exhibit 482. It is found in the transcript on page 5847. It was introduced during cross examination of the Defendant Sievers, and you will find the initials "i", the initials of the Defendant Sievers, appearing on the original document.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-2210, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 483, found on page 5850 of the official transcript and was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Sievers, and you will note that the original document bears the signature of the Defendant Sievers.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-1657, which is Prosecution Exhibit 484, found on page 5851 of the official record and is a document containing 4 letters. The first one bears the signature of Dr. Muehlens; the second one bears the signature of SS Brigadefuehrer Gluecks; the third letter bears the signature of Sievers; and the fourth letter bears the signature of Sievers.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-1331, which is Prosecution Exhibit 485, found on page 5859 of the record and was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Sievers. It is noted that the original initials of the Defendant Sievers appear on the document.

The next document, Your Honor, is Document NO-1756, which is Prosecution Exhibit 486, found in the transcript on page 6411; it was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Rose; a letter to Professor Schilling. It is a file copy.

The next document, Your Honor, is Document NO-1752, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 487, found on page 6415 of the record. It was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Rose and bears the original signature of Klaus Schilling, a letter addressed to Professor Rose.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-1753, Prosecution Exhibit 488, found on page 6418 of the official transcript and was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Rose, bears the original signature of Schilling and is addressed to Professor Rose.

The next document, Your Honor, id Document NO-1755, Prosecution Exhibit 489, found on page 6419 of the official transcript, was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Rose and bears the letter initial "R" of the Defendant Rose, a letter directed, to Dr. Klaus Schilling.

The next document, Your Honor, is document NO-1059, offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 490, found on page 6426 of the official record, was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Rose and is a file copy of a letter addressed to the Defendant Rose, which is a report on experiments with dehydrate typhus vaccine.

JUDGE SEBRING: Do you have any information about whom this letter is from?

MR. HARDY: This is a letter that the Prosecution, Your Honor, I can give you more direct information now that I have studied it more closely. This is a letter which the Prosecution found in the files of Professor Haagen. It is a file copy of a letter addressed to Professor Rose.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-1754, offered as Prosecution Exhibit 479, found on page 6460 of the official transcript, was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Rose and bears the original signature of the Defendant Mrugowsky.

THE PRESIDENT: That is not Exhibit 479, Counsel; it is 491, is it not?

MR. HARDY: 491. Pardon me, Your Honor. 491. The next document Your Honor, is Document NO-1186, which is Prosecution Exhibit 492, found on page 6463 of the record, was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Rose and bears the signature of the Defendant Rose and is addressed to the Defendant Mrugowsky. Concerning experiments with murine virus typhus vaccine.

The next document, Your Honors, is Document NO-1359, Prosecution Exhibit 493, found on page 7238 of the record, was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Weltz and is a file note signed or having the stamped signature of the Defendant Sievers. This is concerning Rascher's assignment at Dachau.

If Your Honors please, I request that you now turn to page 4 of the index. You will note that on Exhibit 494 the number is empty — there is no document number assigned to it. Apparently we just missed the number entirely during the course of presentation, so that is an empty document number, Your Honors.

I will give the Secretary General a file folder with the exhibit number and annotation "Not assigned" thereon, for his files.

The next document, Your Honor, which is the first one listed on page 4 of your index, is Document NO-1328, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 495, found on page 7690. This was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Brack. For further information concerning the document I believe it will be necessary to consult the cross examination, inasmuch as I myself am not too familiar with this particular document. This letter does, however, have the signature of the Defendant Brack appearing thereon.

The next document, Your Honors, is Document NO-2893, which is Prosecution Exhibit 496, which is found on Page 7700 of the transcript, was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Brack by Mr. Hachwald and is excerpts from a publication by Professor Binding and Hoche, regarding the authority to annihilate life, unworthy to live. As I recall, he introduced that at that a time to question the defendant concerning his attitude on the subject of euthanasia.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-2799, which is Prosecution Exhibit 497, which is found on page 7710 of the record and was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Brack. At that time Defense Counsel for Brack objected because of inadequate opportunity to cross examine the affiant, I believe. The objection was overruled at that time, as the Tribunal ruled that Froeschmann could apply for the witness if he deemed it necessary. This affidavit contains a jurat and is in proper order.

The next document is NO-2429, Prosecution Exhibit 498, will be found on page 7714 of the official record, and is an affidavit of one Gustav Claussen and found to contain the proper jurat and in good form, Your Honors. This was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Brack.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-2908, which is Prosecution Exhibit 499, found on page 7721 of the official record, was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Brack, and on this document the original signature of one SS Gruppenfuehrer [General] Koppe and one SS Gruppenfuehrer Sporrenberg appear.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-2909, which is Prosecution Exhibit 500, fund on page 7721 of the official transcript, was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Brack, and thereon appears the original signature of SS Gruppenfuehrer Rediess.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-2911, which is offered as Exhibit 501. Now, Your Honor might have some difficulty finding this —

THE PRESIDENT: I do.

MR. HARDY: I note that Document NO-1461 should be NO-2911, so if you have a document that is— it should be marked in pencil 2911. This is a letter to SS Gruppenfuehrer Welff, dated 22 February 1941, so that you will identify it properly for marking it, Your Honor. Do you find that discrepancy?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes.

MR. HARDY: I offer Document NO-2911 as Prosecution Exhibit 501; this is found on page 7722 of the record and was introduced during the cross examination of the Defendant Brack. This bears the original signature of SS Gruppenfuehrer Koppe, I believe.

The next document, Your Honor, is Document NO-2758, which is Prosecution Exhibit 502, which is found on page 7727 of the record, which was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Brack. You will recall, I believe, that the purpose of Dr. Hachwald having submitted this during the cross-examination of the Defendant Brack was to substantiate the chart which was drawn by the Defendant Brack, and this was some notes that he made prior to the drafting of the original chart that we have put into exhibit in, I believe, Document Book No. 1. Offhand I cannot recall the exact number of the original chart.

The next Document NO-3010, which is Prosecution Exhibit 503, which is found on page 7734 of the official transcript, was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Brack. You will find this is an affidavit in good form, containing a jurat and meeting the qualifications of the Tribunal.

The next document, Your Honor, is NO-2614, is offered as Exhibit No. 504, for convenience purposes. It is found on page 7735, and it is an extract from the transcript of the International Military Tribunal, duly authenticated by the Secretary General. That is 2614. That was introduced during the cross-examination of the Defendant Brack, I believe.

The next document is another excerpt from the IMT Judgment, which is NO 2737, and is given Prosecution Exhibit No. 505, for convenience. It is found on page 7740 of the record, and also used during the cross-examination of the Defendant Brack.

The next document is No. 997, which is Prosecution Exhibit 506, which is found on Page 7740 of the official transcript, which was offered during the cross-examination of the Defendant Brack.

DR. FROESCHMANN: May I ask to see the original? Mr. President I object to this document because it has no signature of any recognizable person.

MR. HARDY: Your Honor, if you will reserve your ruling on this objection until such time as I have been able to refer this to Dr. Hochwald. Unfortunately I am not in a position to tell you where each and every document we have introduced came from, and I would like to have Dr. Hochwald inform me as to this document.

JUDGE SEBRING: Does it have a printed letterhead?

MR. HARDY: No, this is purely a carbon copy, Your Honor, and from what files it came I am unable to tell you. I will have to consult Dr. Hochwald.

THE PRESIDENT: Can you obtain that information from Dr. Hochwald during the afternoon recess?

MR. HARDY: I will call him up to argue the objection, Your Honor, and then we won't have to wait for it.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now be in recess, and you can procure the doctor in the meantime.

(Thereupon a recess was taken.)